Annexing the Player

[Cagliostro]

A player cannot get annexed by event. However, there are several event options that allow this to occur, or rather, "occur". In some cases this can be exploited by taking the annexation option. For example, if you play Gelderland and choose the annexation option, you can become the Netherlands with German and Dutch culture! Plus, you will avoid the usually-catastrophic results of refusing annexation.

It's my opinion that in every case where there's an option leading to event annexation, that option should be made AI only. There probably aren't TOO many, and it wouldn't be too hard to make AI dupes of them. You could rely on the player not choosing the illegal exploit option, but why allow an illegal exploit option in the first place?

 

[doktarr]

A player cannot get annexed by event. However, there are several event options that allow this to occur, or rather, "occur". In some cases this can be exploited by taking the annexation option. For example, if you play Gelderland and choose the annexation option, you can become the Netherlands with German and Dutch culture! Plus, you will avoid the usually-catastrophic results of refusing annexation.

It's my opinion that in every case where there's an option leading to event annexation, that option should be made AI only. There probably aren't TOO many, and it wouldn't be too hard to make AI dupes of them. You could rely on the player not choosing the illegal exploit option, but why allow an illegal exploit option in the first place?

I agree. In some cases this is a significant problem.

 

[unmerged(19695)]

A player cannot get annexed by event. However, there are several event options that allow this to occur, or rather, "occur". In some cases this can be exploited by taking the annexation option. For example, if you play Gelderland and choose the annexation option, you can become the Netherlands with German and Dutch culture! Plus, you will avoid the usually-catastrophic results of refusing annexation.

It's my opinion that in every case where there's an option leading to event annexation, that option should be made AI only. There probably aren't TOO many, and it wouldn't be too hard to make AI dupes of them. You could rely on the player not choosing the illegal exploit option, but why allow an illegal exploit option in the first place?

The reason to allow an "illegal exploit" in the first place is to allow the player to follow that path. You can't actually play the Netherlands in a grand campaign, as it doesn't exist. I think it's kind of cool that you could start out playing Gelderland, and when Netherlands forms and inherits you, you can continue to play as the Netherlands. I don't see why an SP player should be prevented from doing so, and I doubt many MP players choose countries that will be inherited during their game.

If you're concerned about the extra culture, can you just remove the german culture as part of the inheritance event?

 

[doktarr]

The reason to allow an "illegal exploit" in the first place is to allow the player to follow that path. You can't actually play the Netherlands in a grand campaign, as it doesn't exist. I think it's kind of cool that you could start out playing Gelderland, and when Netherlands forms and inherits you, you can continue to play as the Netherlands. I don't see why an SP player should be prevented from doing so, and I doubt many MP players choose countries that will be inherited during their game.

If you're concerned about the extra culture, can you just remove the german culture as part of the inheritance event?

You're misunderstanding him. In some events there are two options:

1) Get inherited by another nation, game over.

2) Some bad stuff.

Since a human can't be inherited, choosing 1) is not game over, and furthermore serves as a clever way to avoid the bad stuff.

This does not mean that there can't be a way for Gelderland to become the Netherlands, just that they shouldn't be able to choose a "game over" choice and then proceed to become the Netherlands.

 

[Cagliostro]

The reason to allow an "illegal exploit" in the first place is to allow the player to follow that path. You can't actually play the Netherlands in a grand campaign, as it doesn't exist. I think it's kind of cool that you could start out playing Gelderland, and when Netherlands forms and inherits you, you can continue to play as the Netherlands. I don't see why an SP player should be prevented from doing so, and I doubt many MP players choose countries that will be inherited during their game.

If you're concerned about the extra culture, can you just remove the german culture as part of the inheritance event?

If you are playing along an and event happens for another country that inherits your country, the game ignores it and continues on as if nothing had happened. The annexation does not take place.

 

[unmerged(19695)]

If you are playing along an and event happens for another country that inherits your country, the game ignores it and continues on as if nothing had happened. The annexation does not take place.

OK, now I understand -- Gelderland becoming a two-culture Netherlands is a future event, not the result of the annexation. You are correct, that does require an AI-only version of the event.

Can the human version of the event still give the chance to become the inheriting country? In essence, inherit the inheritor, fix cultures/cores, and change the tags? I still think that'd be neat.

 

[Twoflower]

I don't misunderstand him, I'm just looking at it a different way. Yes, "game over" means different things to AI and human. But 1) isn't just a "clever way to avoid the bad stuff", it's a way to become the inheriting country while following the historical path. I don't understand why, in principle, it's OK to play Castile and inherit Aragon, but not ok to play Aragon and continue as Spain after Castile inherits. Or OK to play Austria and inherit Hungary, but not OK to play Hungary, and be inherited and continue as Austria (Austria-Hungary). Giving Aragon an alternate path to become Spain is an entirely different path, an ahistorical one at that.

The only concern I have about a (not really) game over event is not avoiding the bad stuff in path B (why should they get the "bad stuff" when the inheriting country, which they are becoming, would not?), but rather that the new state has different characteristics when playing through the inherited country instead of the inheriting country. Like the extra culture in the Netherlands example. I don't see why that can't be fixed in the inheriting event.

I suppose there's a concern that the button is inaccurate, and should be "play on as new country" instead of "game over". That should be fixed, too. It'd make the button inaccurate for the AI, but the AI doesn't see the buttons anyway.

Choosing to be inherited as a player doesn't result in being inherited and playing on as the new country though. What happens is simply nothing; the two countries stay separate and you'll play on with your old country as a separate state. Hence choosing "being inherited" (which will not cause you to be inherited) is just a simple way to make these events have no effect at all.
EDIT: sorry, this post was late

 

[unmerged(19695)]

Choosing to be inherited as a player doesn't result in being inherited and playing on as the new country though. What happens is simply nothing; the two countries stay separate and you'll play on with your old country as a separate state. Hence choosing "being inherited" (which will not cause you to be inherited) is just a simple way to make these events have no effect at all.
EDIT: sorry, this post was late

And my post was too soon, I was misunderstanding the mechanics. I agree it should be fixed, though I'd like to see the human version of the event let you become the new country.

If you don't want to give that option, an AI-only event could be avoided by putting the "bad stuff" in both options of the event. I wouldn't think that would impact the AI at all.