Annexing japan / Daimyo as an outsider

[Kurblius]

I'm currently trying an alternative strategy that I've read on this forum: Take all the provinces that surround Kyoto. If the capital is surrounded, you can apparently occupy all the Daimyo capitals (and Kyoto) in the next war and the "Daimyo disbanded" event should actually work properly. I learned the key to taking provinces from Japan is to make sure no other country becomes war leader. If another country does become war leader, you can still take provinces from Japan by negotiating with the war leader but it will likely be full badboy. So so far I've done this:

1.) Declared war on Japan and Ming at the same time (because Ming was guaranteeing Japan).
2.) Took Kyoto, giving me 100% warscore immediately, and then conquering two adjacent provinces.
3.) Sued for Peace with Japan, taking two provinces for 8 bb.
4.) approx 5 years later, I finish another war with Ming. Declared war on Xia (using violation of sphere CB) and Japan (religious war CB). A separate Xia war was necessary because it was guaranteeing Japan.
5.) Occupied Kyoto again, and the 4 remaining provinces surrounding Kyoto.
6.) Sued for Peace with Japan, taking 4 provionces for 4 bb.

So, if all goes as plan, one more war and I can annex Kyoto by occupying the Daimyo capitals and disbanding the Daimyo system. All I want is the capital anyway - I want the CoT.

 

[unmerged(70580)]

Hi,

I tried the above, well, except I attacked Ming in an earlier war & got it to end its treaties with Japan, put Japan in my sphere then 5 years later Holy War'd Japan & took all regions around Kyoto ay 1 infamy each. It didn't work, sorry.

I'm now trying the Fund Patriot trick, running into problems. I've attacked isolated (unguranteed) Japan 6 times now, reduced the 4 surving Daimyos to one DPM, 2 OPMs, & one Daimyo with 10 regions, & of course Japan itself, Kyoto. Everything else I've taken, ay 1 infamy, so not too bad.

It's 1623, so plenty of time left before Holy War expires.

There are a few problems I've hit with the Fund Patriot plan. First, the success chance of my spies can be very low. Second, the rebels vanish! Third, they wander off.

What I'm doing is war deciing Japan, destroying all armies, seizing Kyoto, seizing the OPMs & DPMs, & a few of the 10 regions of the other Daimyo.

Then, I fund the patriots, then I make peace with Japan (& seize some territory, but not that the rebels are sat in, or the ones I want them to travel to, i.e. the OPM regions (which I can't take in the peace deal, would that I could, or the DPM spare region).

Last attempt at this, I raised 4k Patriot rebels in one of the OPMs & in one of the DPM's regiions. I made the peace deal, & the rebels immediately vanished! Anyone know why?

Previously, I've seen them wander off, but I think that may be less of an issue now as I've got the DPM & OPMs surrounded by my regions.

Finally, the way my game is going, I'll have no problem reducing all Daimyos to OPMs within the next 10 years. If I can do that, does anyone know if Japan & 4 Daimyo capitals are then small enough to vassalise outright. If it is, I guess I can just do that, & annex after vassalising.

 

[Chieron]

When I finally managed to disband the shogunate and kill Japan, it happened like this:
(You want to reduce the number of daimyos to 2, so the shogunate really gets disbanded when occupying capitals+Kyoto)

-Reduce all daimyos to isolated 2PM status (daimyo capital + adjacent province), consider leaving one of them with more provinces, one isolated one bordering Kyoto
-occupy adjacent province and sponsor patriots there ->they will wander off to the capital [one daimyo at a time, cross-collapsing can undo your killing]
-peace and wait, if you are lucky, the capital+province will defect upon collapse (if you aren't, consider reloading, the troops converted from the patriots are still friendly to you, fighting them later is just weird)
-attack again, take the provinces of the daimyo who just collapsed. if there are only 2 daimyos left, you can now disband the shogunate, getting rid of Japan nonsense. else, rinse and repeat.

trying to defect Kyoto to a daimyo can also work. The important part is just that the patriots should have no choice but to occupy a capital - if the province where you sponsor them is completely isolated, they will go anywhere in Japan, though (and wander around too much). Regardless, it's totally annoying and luck-based. As long as there are other hot areas around the globe (so that reloading will be costly), ignore Japan.

 

[unmerged(70580)]

Thanks Chieron, I think I see where I may have been going wrong.

First, in creating OPMS rather than DPMs ... it's not too late though, I can still creater 2 x DPMs from the Daimyos left.

Secondly, in occupying all territory before spawning the Patriot rebels. From your description above, it looks like I should not siege & capture the Daimyo capital of a DPM, but instead just do that in the other region, spwn the rebels there, wait for those rebs to besiege the capital, then peace out.

I'll give that a go next time, thanks.

 

[unmerged(70580)]

Hi all,

Just to update, doing the above, leaving the daimyo capital's unoccupied & spawning rebels elsewhere, has worked (pretty much anyway, there were a few occasions when the rebels would just vanish when I peaced out, regardless).

I got rid of one Daimyo by spawning rebels in Kyoto & in one of the Daimyo's occupied regions, who then marched off to the unoccupied Daimyo capital. That Daimyo defected to another Daimyo.

I got rid of a another Daimyo by spawning Patriots in a region held by regular rebles, who then also marched into the Daimyo capital. That Daimyo eventually defected to Japan proper, turning it into a 3 region nation.

There was a fair bit of inconsistency involved in whether rebels would vanish at peace deals or not, so lots of saving before & after, restarting when necessary, but, in the end, it worked, I'm down to Japan & 2 Daimyos now, so expect to actually remove the Shogunate next war.