Annexation vs. Occupation

[Hartmann]

I wonder how this is handled in the game. I hope that neither do all conquered territories during the war just count as "occupied", nor as "annexed".

E.g. Germany annexed some occupied regions, like Alsace and Poland, but had different kinds of administration going on in other territories like France or the Ukraine. The Reich in the strict narrow sense (i.e. excluding those provinces which were just occupied, but not annexed during the war) looked like this in 1944:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubadnw/history/maps/d1944.jpg

So how could the distinction between "annnexed" and "occupied" translate into the game? Basically, annexing should give one better production capabilites, but should only be possible under certain conditions (culture, adjacency, how much time has passed since date of occupation etc.)

Maybe I should also explain why all this can´t just be handled like in EU: the reason is that there will be basically one big war going on for most of the game. So, it makes no sense to have to wait with annexing until the war is over ...

Hartmann

 

[Ape]

Harty, I´d thought you´d be dead by now ,
but you raise an interesting point.
Would Czechoslovakia be considered occupied in -39
or a part of Germany?
Would Austria?
What are the conditions for annexation?
What are the conditions for occupation?
Would a Vichy France be considered occupied?
Can you use production in occupied territories?

 

[unmerged(2238)]

Originally posted by Hartmann
I wonder how this is handled in the game. I hope that neither do all conquered territories during the war just count as "occupied", nor as "annexed".

E.g. Germany annexed some occupied regions, like Alsace and Poland, but had different kinds of administration going on in other territories like France or the Ukraine. The Reich in the strict narrow sense (i.e. excluding those provinces which were just occupied, but not annexed during the war) looked like this in 1944:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~deubadnw/history/maps/d1944.jpg

So how could the distinction between "annnexed" and "occupied" translate into the game? Basically, annexing should give one better production capabilites, but should only be possible under certain conditions (culture, adjacency, how much time has passed since date of occupation etc.)

Maybe I should also explain why all this can´t just be handled like in EU: the reason is that there will be basically one big war going on for most of the game. So, it makes no sense to have to wait with annexing until the war is over ...

Hartmann

Sort of related to what you're saying, I guess what I'm wondering is in relation to the EU2 engine what is going to be kept. There is so much that needs to be thrown out and reworked, that wasn't necessarily done so in EU2. I hope for some huge, huge non-cosmetic changes. And I think they'll have to, total change in time periods in HOI--but I still fear for crusader kings, that they'll keep way to much crappy EU1-2 stuff because the change isn't nearly as drastic in time/age.

Also, great to see you back Hartmann.

 

[State Machine]

I think a big distinction must be made between EU I and II, the games, and the "EU engine". Johan has posted that the "engine" consists of the framework for AI, game files, etc., but not the game features.

In other words, the game features can be radically different while still being implemented by the "EU engine". The EU principles and nomenclature are not very relevant to HoI.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by State Machine
I think a big distinction must be made between EU I and II, the games, and the "EU engine". Johan has posted that the "engine" consists of the framework for AI, game files, etc., but not the game features.

In other words, the game features can be radically different while still being implemented by the "EU engine". The EU principles and nomenclature are not very relevant to HoI.

Yes, the engine is just what runs behind the scenes not what you see on the screen. As an example the time rolls on an in EU the first of the month specific stuff is done. In HOI as the time rolls on you see hours instead of days and the stuff done monthly in EU would (could) be done daily in HOI. Same principles different data etc.

 

[Pwyll]

It seems to me that looking at the map that Germany did not decide to annex everywhere they marched into right away. If you can officially knock someone out of the war you should be able to annex them.....but what is considered an official knockout? Obviously the Netherlands were not officially knocked out because Germany could/did not occupy its colonies...same goes for Denmark. An EU form of vassalation occured....did not Germany occupy half of France...they could decide what was built there, rework the landscape etc...Vichy France was a seperate entity ( controlled by the axis ) and had to supply Germany with $1000000 USD worth of goods per day. The thing is because of the limited time span....everything is intricately woven together. Almost every aspect of the game could rely on 1 to a dozen different things affecting it. How peace, occupation is handled will be in my mind one of the most important things to be worked on game wise...how well Paradox can reflect the historical realities.

 

[ratbag]

I have been thinking along these lines of annexation and occuptaion too, but with no clear solution in mind.

However, I would LOOOOVE if there was a feature that allowed cities annexed or occupied by Germany to automatically change name to Gotenhafen, Warschau, Prag and so on...

 

[MacGregor]

I think you'll need both annexation and occupation options. To analygize to EU, you will need annexation with respect to Austria, Sudeten, Polish corridor, etc. , but without the "one province rule. However, in most cases you'll have occupation which could be handled similar to the "forced vasselization" found in the EU games. Yes, these two categories will be an oversimplification, and if we get greater detail in the political model, great. But a system such as this would certainly be acceptable given that the focus of the game will most certainly be war, not diplomacy.

 

[L G]

i personally would like 2 b able 2 just occupy the nations for a while i work out the kinks.......

 

[unmerged(5206)]

Ugh... "AI"