Playing German in the '36 scenario. As I conquer countries, which is the better option--annexation or puppet? Also, does the country conquered matter?
Kip
Kip
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Annexation gives you control of the resources (IC, materials, etc) with the trade-off of partisan activity and the fact that you only get a fairly small percentage of the IC. It'll also stretch your TC quite a way once you've spread halfway across the map.
Releasing a puppet means that the puppet nation controls its own IC, of which it gets 100%, and it'll use this accordingly - usually to give you a huge amount of extra INF divisions, etc, with the trade-off being that you can't control how the IC is spent, although you can assume military control of the nation and use the military it produces as you wish. It's really up to you - I tend to keep control of nations that have a large amount of IC, and puppet those with smaller resource pools, using the troops they create for border patrol and anti-partisan activity in the occupied/annexed provinces. Then again, if you're playing as Germany, you might want to just paint the entirety of Europe grey - lebensraum and all that!
Releasing a puppet means that the puppet nation controls its own IC, of which it gets 100%, and it'll use this accordingly - usually to give you a huge amount of extra INF divisions, etc, with the trade-off being that you can't control how the IC is spent, although you can assume military control of the nation and use the military it produces as you wish. It's really up to you - I tend to keep control of nations that have a large amount of IC, and puppet those with smaller resource pools, using the troops they create for border patrol and anti-partisan activity in the occupied/annexed provinces. Then again, if you're playing as Germany, you might want to just paint the entirety of Europe grey - lebensraum and all that!
Puppets get full use of the resources and IC on their soil and they share alot of what they produce as extra in terms of resources with you (they give you free trades of their excess resources). You can also take military control of puppets and command their divisions.
On the other hand they are not free to enter trade agreements so you will need to make sure they have the resources they lack to keep operations going smoothly. Another minus is that although they get to use the full IC in their provinces you can't control how they use it. So if you for example need more tanks at a give moment there's no way to make the puppet produce them for you so they might just produce a lot of useless junk units for you.
If you annex you get to use just a certain percent of the IC and resources in your non-core provinces and you most probably have to deal with partisans but it's up to you how to use the IC.
So it's up to you. Personally when i play as Germany i just like to paint the world grey even though puppets are clearly a powerfull choice. Just take Croatia as a puppet (for flavour) and later release Canada and create the Confederacy and California when you conquer America - the rest you should keep.
As Japan on the other hand you'll find it almost impossible to hold it all together so you'll need to release the Pacific nations (Australia, NZ) and reshuffle the map of China. You're puppets will produce a ton of infantry for you so you could just concentrate on a fleet.
On the other hand they are not free to enter trade agreements so you will need to make sure they have the resources they lack to keep operations going smoothly. Another minus is that although they get to use the full IC in their provinces you can't control how they use it. So if you for example need more tanks at a give moment there's no way to make the puppet produce them for you so they might just produce a lot of useless junk units for you.
If you annex you get to use just a certain percent of the IC and resources in your non-core provinces and you most probably have to deal with partisans but it's up to you how to use the IC.
So it's up to you. Personally when i play as Germany i just like to paint the world grey even though puppets are clearly a powerfull choice. Just take Croatia as a puppet (for flavour) and later release Canada and create the Confederacy and California when you conquer America - the rest you should keep.
As Japan on the other hand you'll find it almost impossible to hold it all together so you'll need to release the Pacific nations (Australia, NZ) and reshuffle the map of China. You're puppets will produce a ton of infantry for you so you could just concentrate on a fleet.
Last edited:
just for clarity should probably mention puppets save upto 1000 in any resource and then send ALL excess to the puppet master (you) this wont show up as a trade agreement the only way youll even know is if you highlight your actual resource tracker
Puppets are good, but several more hardcore players complain they make the game more easy, mainly for the above reasons. Also puppet AI is dim. Just once, a div of tanks, no matter how crappy, or build an airbase in a vital spot? PLEASE? but no. Infinfinfinfinfinf to inf-inity...
It depends on if we are talking about puppeting a nation, or annexing and then releasing.
I think it really depends on your situation. If you really need divisions, puppeting them will get you all their army if you didnt destroy it.
This is an alternative stategy as germany to just puppet all the other european nations, since you get control of their army. That becomes quite a few divisons.
I often liberate for the following reasons:
Puppets use 100% of IC instead of just 20% that you get.
They also use 100% of the resources, instead of just half. You get most of them anyway, so its a good trade.
Also i hate mess around with garrison divisions and releasing them will allow them to build their own defence.
Some small but IC rich countries like Bulgaria and Belgium can be worth to keep tho, since they have high IC but little TC drain.
A country like Finland (little IC but fairly big) is a pain in the arse.
I think it really depends on your situation. If you really need divisions, puppeting them will get you all their army if you didnt destroy it.
This is an alternative stategy as germany to just puppet all the other european nations, since you get control of their army. That becomes quite a few divisons.
I often liberate for the following reasons:
Puppets use 100% of IC instead of just 20% that you get.
They also use 100% of the resources, instead of just half. You get most of them anyway, so its a good trade.
Also i hate mess around with garrison divisions and releasing them will allow them to build their own defence.
Some small but IC rich countries like Bulgaria and Belgium can be worth to keep tho, since they have high IC but little TC drain.
A country like Finland (little IC but fairly big) is a pain in the arse.
so hey its personal preference!
The total conquistador: prefer ease of control, using my own leaders, a standard korps structure, no weirdness, no mutinous navay or air force running amok(hehe), if i need more divs i have em since i planned ahead and already built them
(downsides are 20 % of captures IC resources, mad partisans and red TC! expect -ESE combat penalties)
The puppet master: almost no partisans, can concentrate on specialty units and navy/air since puppets are spamming INF, maximised resources via the free stream once they save up 1000, larger leader pool, optimised TC/ESE.
(downsides are most puppets lose their claims on surrounding provences after you puppet them(hungary is a good example)
The alliance leader: loves chaos! (just joking) you can mil control a fully intact and ready military, most of the countries will have claims on surrounding provences (growth potential)
(downsides are you have to trade for their resources no IC from allies either)
The total conquistador: prefer ease of control, using my own leaders, a standard korps structure, no weirdness, no mutinous navay or air force running amok(hehe), if i need more divs i have em since i planned ahead and already built them
(downsides are 20 % of captures IC resources, mad partisans and red TC! expect -ESE combat penalties)The puppet master: almost no partisans, can concentrate on specialty units and navy/air since puppets are spamming INF, maximised resources via the free stream once they save up 1000, larger leader pool, optimised TC/ESE.
(downsides are most puppets lose their claims on surrounding provences after you puppet them(hungary is a good example)
The alliance leader: loves chaos! (just joking) you can mil control a fully intact and ready military, most of the countries will have claims on surrounding provences (growth potential)
(downsides are you have to trade for their resources no IC from allies either)
Annex everything until you start Sealion and Barborassa where it's certainly helpful when you puppet England/Scotland/Wales (although you can keep Wales just to have some German land in UK ), and I've heard of some people puppeting Ukraine just for the free INF divisions. Just remember though that you need a land connection to get manpower and if you don't have port in your conquered territory then the resources will stack up and never reach Germany
), and I've heard of some people puppeting Ukraine just for the free INF divisions. Just remember though that you need a land connection to get manpower and if you don't have port in your conquered territory then the resources will stack up and never reach GermanyMy thoughts on this.....
As Germany I generally puppet and sue for peace (Italy) for Libya/Ethiopia/Somalia. Yugoslavia well liberate as I conquer.
Its tough as I do hit 10% dissent, but then again I build 10 runs of factories non stop till 46 so for me my insurance is my IC to improve TC and to deal with the dissent.
I try to liberate to keep my belligerence down to keep the allies of my back until I have a nice corridor to the Suez and Gibraltar. I also like to keep partisans down as I hate the affect on TC.
I like to pick up research that the puppets have and I buy divisions from them as well. I also control there armies and use them for crap duties so I can march around Moscow with all the glory !
But you ask any player here and we all nickel and dime and try to squeeze every last bit of IC out of everything we do.
This game makes you think ahead so far and not thinking about what you do in 36-39 will upset you in 41-43.
We also have styles to our play.
I also wonder, do any guys keep tally sheets of their game progress ?
I now have this sheet that tracks for each year 1st of Jan from 36-52 IC, TC, VP, Inf etc etc
As Germany I generally puppet and sue for peace (Italy) for Libya/Ethiopia/Somalia. Yugoslavia well liberate as I conquer.
Its tough as I do hit 10% dissent, but then again I build 10 runs of factories non stop till 46 so for me my insurance is my IC to improve TC and to deal with the dissent.
I try to liberate to keep my belligerence down to keep the allies of my back until I have a nice corridor to the Suez and Gibraltar. I also like to keep partisans down as I hate the affect on TC.
I like to pick up research that the puppets have and I buy divisions from them as well. I also control there armies and use them for crap duties so I can march around Moscow with all the glory !
But you ask any player here and we all nickel and dime and try to squeeze every last bit of IC out of everything we do.
This game makes you think ahead so far and not thinking about what you do in 36-39 will upset you in 41-43.
We also have styles to our play.
I also wonder, do any guys keep tally sheets of their game progress ?
I now have this sheet that tracks for each year 1st of Jan from 36-52 IC, TC, VP, Inf etc etc
Ever tried to trade technologies with puppeted NatChi when playing as Japan? They will take gifts but never will trade techs with you.
Nat chinas tech team suck. Puppets occasionally offer you blueprints if you neglect a tree that they like.
It is considered reasonable to either edit the save so that they will trade with you, or just use accept all in this case.
I tended before to make puppets, because of the well known reasons.
In my last game as JAP, I made CHI a puppet (it almost the best puppet nation one can imagine). Unfortunatly, I had almost 0 benefit from CHI as a puppet. It did produced INF, but by far not a huge amount. It produced only 3 MTNs, and about 4 INTs. I used these forces against SOV (Mongolia and Vladivostok areas). In Vladivostok, JAP forces had to help out, in Mongolia it was a desaster, regardless that CHI forces were 2x-3x numbered then enemy. So the CHI army was no help at all.
I didn't had any resource problem regardless if CHI was a puppet or annexed.
The only point were trade off for partisans. If I had produced about 20 GAR+MP, i had managed the partisans, too and had more base IC. With prince of terror even more (+15% of the anexxed).
Belive me, I have got used the 20%-35% of CHI IC much better, then CHI did with it's 100%.
In my last game as JAP, I made CHI a puppet (it almost the best puppet nation one can imagine). Unfortunatly, I had almost 0 benefit from CHI as a puppet. It did produced INF, but by far not a huge amount. It produced only 3 MTNs, and about 4 INTs. I used these forces against SOV (Mongolia and Vladivostok areas). In Vladivostok, JAP forces had to help out, in Mongolia it was a desaster, regardless that CHI forces were 2x-3x numbered then enemy. So the CHI army was no help at all.
I didn't had any resource problem regardless if CHI was a puppet or annexed.
The only point were trade off for partisans. If I had produced about 20 GAR+MP, i had managed the partisans, too and had more base IC. With prince of terror even more (+15% of the anexxed).
Belive me, I have got used the 20%-35% of CHI IC much better, then CHI did with it's 100%.
That's because Japan is on China's "banned" list for trading - I suppose it is there to represent the emnity that was present between the two at the time. Not having it removed (if it is actually possible) by the fall of china event is something of an oversight.
Most of the time they spam out large amounts of inf. Did you give them resources so they could build inf for you? I doin't tend to use puppet inf offensivly that much. Beacg defence, garrison duties, anti partisan duties or putting a large stck of them with you troops in a choke point preferably on a mountain or jungle (Burma).
My criteria is the following:
-If the conquered country has a lot of IC (excluding URSS), I annex, for the IC.
-If the above has a quite a good amount of resources, I probably release, or make puppet (sometimes they don't accept 'Make Puppet' so you have to annex them first).
It is important to note that some territories, like Africa (excluding Egypt I think) or maybe India do not generate Partisan Activity once you conquer them, so there's really no need to release them, though it can be profitable.
Also, annexing gives you more resources (50% instead of 20% I believe) and slowly reduces PA, but when conquering colonies you can't do that, you just occupy, so the only way to reduce PA is either release puppet or fill the place with garrisons, which is really annoying and not very practical. Not every colony gives PA though.
Also, if the enemy which you released a puppet from starts a counter-attack onr the puppet, they receive the PA ^^, and if they get to annex it, they'll get a nice belligerence.
-If the conquered country has a lot of IC (excluding URSS), I annex, for the IC.
-If the above has a quite a good amount of resources, I probably release, or make puppet (sometimes they don't accept 'Make Puppet' so you have to annex them first).
It is important to note that some territories, like Africa (excluding Egypt I think) or maybe India do not generate Partisan Activity once you conquer them, so there's really no need to release them, though it can be profitable.
Also, annexing gives you more resources (50% instead of 20% I believe) and slowly reduces PA, but when conquering colonies you can't do that, you just occupy, so the only way to reduce PA is either release puppet or fill the place with garrisons, which is really annoying and not very practical. Not every colony gives PA though.
Also, if the enemy which you released a puppet from starts a counter-attack onr the puppet, they receive the PA ^^, and if they get to annex it, they'll get a nice belligerence.
I base it on which country I'm playing. As an Allied state, I'll puppet my conquests, rather than trying to occupy them. As an Axis state, I'll annex them instead of letting them run free. As the Comintern, I usually also annex instead of puppet (I need the IC/resources to beat the US later, you see).