Anglo-Saxon Succession?

[The Kingmaker]

There are definitely plenty of examples of Anglo-Saxon women who would have made good monarchs, for example, Margaret, sister of Edgar Aetheling (and future Queen of Scotland).

She would have made an excellent queen regnant, probably much better than her brother, but nobody was clamoring for her right to the throne.

 

[Lysistrata]

There are definitely plenty of examples of Anglo-Saxon women who would have made good monarchs, for example, Margaret, sister of Edgar Aetheling (and future Queen of Scotland).

She would have made an excellent queen regnant, probably much better than her brother, but nobody was clamoring for her right to the throne.

Such is the nature of the sexist medieval West I don't know much about Margaret, and it's really hard to judge (at least from my perspective) whether Eadgar or his sisters would have been any good on the throne on the basis that they were forced to give up their claims before they were old enough to prove themselves. I'm sure any of them would've made a fine king/queen regnant if they'd inherited in a less chaotic situation.

Speaking of queens regnant, once I get her on the throne, I anticipate having fun conquering the Isles as my ruler designer creation, Gunhilda Denison.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Speaking of queens regnant, once I get her on the throne, I anticipate having fun conquering the Isles as my ruler designer creation, Gunhilda Denison.

Surely you mean Gunhilda Denisdottir?

 

[The Kingmaker]

Such is the nature of the sexist medieval West I don't know much about Margaret, and it's really hard to judge (at least from my perspective) whether Eadgar or his sisters would have been any good on the throne on the basis that they were forced to give up their claims before they were old enough to prove themselves. I'm sure any of them would've made a fine king/queen regnant if they'd inherited in a less chaotic situation.

You should look her up. Margaret had a very profound effect on subsequent Scottish history, not merely because of her outstanding fecundity, but because of the considerable influence she actually wielded (and its effect on her husband and children).

Also worth mentioning is the fact that by this point, a great many people of British descent or extraction are descended from her.

 

[darthfanta]

You should look her up. Margaret had a very profound effect on subsequent Scottish history, not merely because of her outstanding fecundity, but because of the considerable influence she actually wielded (and its effect on her husband and children).

Also worth mentioning is the fact that by this point, a great many people of British descent or extraction are descended from her.

And paradox doesn't seem to give a damn a thing. Just look at her stats lol. She's usually worst than her younger sister. Eadgar seems to be the most decent out of that family.

 

[The Kingmaker]

And paradox doesn't seem to give a damn a thing. Just look at her stats lol. She's usually worst than her younger sister. Eadgar seems to be the most decent out of that family.

Unfortunately, they seem to have done that with most of the Anglo-Saxons.

 

[Lysistrata]

Unfortunately, they seem to have done that with most of the Anglo-Saxons.

Aside from England having absolutely no upgrades to speak of, that's a reason that Harold is so weak against Harald and Bill. As has been said on the forums numerous times, it was historically very close. I do think the Norman invasion shouldn't begin on the 1066 bookmark, though. Maybe a few days later but not immediately.

And nope, Denison is the dynasty name.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Aside from England having absolutely no upgrades to speak of, that's a reason that Harold is so weak against Harald and Bill. As has been said on the forums numerous times, it was historically very close. I do think the Norman invasion shouldn't begin on the 1066 bookmark, though. Maybe a few days later but not immediately.

And that's another problem. The only advantages Normandy should have on England are castles and heavy cavalry. England should be superior in heavy infantry, social infrastructure, and general wealth and economic stability. England was quite the prize in 1066. That's why William wanted it so badly for his own.

 

[Lysistrata]

And that's another problem. The only advantages Normandy should have on England are castles and heavy cavalry. England should be superior in heavy infantry, social infrastructure, and general wealth and economic stability. England was quite the prize in 1066. That's why William wanted it so badly for his own.

Whereas in-game...it's a dump as poor as Ethiopia and Russia. I've been modding, and now the Norman Invasion doesn't happen immediately on start-up (the Normans certainly didn't land till after the Norwegians were defeated, so the Norman invasion doesn't happen on start-up till the day after the defeat of Hardrade), usually it still happens, though. And the odds are still very much stacked against England but I can't see a great deal that I can do about that for the moment, although I think they key may be in buffing Eadwin and Morcar a bit.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

The Normans landing after the Norwegians lost wasn't exactly historically co-ordinated...

Harold could easily have ended up fighting those battles the opposite way around.

 

[Lysistrata]

The Normans landing after the Norwegians lost wasn't exactly historically co-ordinated...

Harold could easily have ended up fighting those battles the opposite way around.

Oh well.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Yup. William of Normandy was always the most pressing threat. Hardrada was a bit of a surprise.

Two of my preferred start-ups in the game are 26 September 1066, the day after Stamford Bridge, and 13 October 1066, the day before the Battle of Hastings. I don't know why more people don't realize that you can completely cut out having to deal with the Norse Invasion that way, and only have to deal with the Normans. One of the benefits of being able to start whenever you want.

 

[MaximumFailure]

Yup. William of Normandy was always the most pressing threat. Hardrada was a bit of a surprise.

Two of my preferred start-ups in the game are 26 September 1066, the day after Stamford Bridge, and 13 October 1066, the day before the Battle of Hastings. I don't know why more people don't realize that you can completely cut out having to deal with the Norse Invasion that way, and only have to deal with the Normans. One of the benefits of being able to start whenever you want.

TPATT adds in the date of Harold's coronation, too. It's a pretty neat start, as while the Normans or Norwegians might invade anyway, you have the freedom to explore many other possibilities without the fear of war.

Other than that, I'm surprised another one likes to start right before Hastings as well-I do it because Gavelkind usually makes England and Norway really messed up if Hadrada wins.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Another example of how gavelkind doesn't work the way it should.

 

[Lysistrata]

Another example of how gavelkind doesn't work the way it should.

OTOH, it means that England and Norway become separate again quickly, making it easier for the Saxons to regain independence.

Unless of course Norway is called into the war, but that all depends on if the King bends to the will of a faction.

 

[The Kingmaker]

What I find happens the most in my games is that England ends up cut in pieces, with the Saxons, Normans and Norse each taking various degrees. It's not uncommon to see the King of Norway or the Duke of Normandy randomly ruling various bits of England well into the 12th or 13th centuries in-game. Don't really like that.

You'd think there'd be some kind of accord to determine who got the crown, rather than just tearing the country apart and never putting it back together properly. I mean, what are the chances that the Saxons would eventually repel the invaders except in a few random non-contiguous inland counties with no naval support?

 

[The Kingmaker]

How's that aetheling mod coming? How exactly would it relate to the succession gameplay-wise?

 

[Lysistrata]

How's that aetheling mod coming? How exactly would it relate to the succession gameplay-wise?

Just an opinion and prestige boost like with Born to the Purple, just an opinion booster to make them more likely to be chosen, since without moddable succession that's all I can do for now.

Also, having a bit trouble with getting the conditions working, but otherwise, it's promising.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Just an opinion and prestige boost like with Born to the Purple, just an opinion booster to make them more likely to be chosen, since without moddable succession that's all I can do for now.

Also, having a bit trouble with getting the conditions working, but otherwise, it's promising.

Sounds good so far. What's the trouble with getting the conditions working? Also, does it only fire for Saxon (and possibly Norse) culture? I suppose the Normans used it for a little while, like how Henry I's ill-fated son was called William Adelin. I don't think William Rufus and Henry Beauclerc were aethelings though. William Adelin may have only had the title because his maternal grandmother was Margaret, Edgar Atheling's sister, so he was actually descended from the old bloodline. By the time of Henry II, I think the title had fallen out of use.

 

[Lysistrata]

Sounds good so far. What's the trouble with getting the conditions working? Also, does it only fire for Saxon (and possibly Norse) culture? I suppose the Normans used it for a little while, like how Henry I's ill-fated son was called William Adelin. I don't think William Rufus and Henry Beauclerc were aethelings though. William Adelin may have only had the title because his maternal grandmother was Margaret, Edgar Atheling's sister, so he was actually descended from the old bloodline. By the time of Henry II, I think the title had fallen out of use.

It will be exclusive to Saxons, yes, simply because instances of any other culture using the title are too rare to bother. It's not a mod on it's own, BTW, it's part of the one in my sig.

As for the conditions, there are lots of problems and if I can't bypass them, I'll either have to simplify the method by which the trait is distributed (probably at the expense of historical accuracy) or drop it entirely. The requirements - aside from being 16, Saxon, male (if agnatic succession is in effect), and not having any major negative congenital traits like inbred, or other negative traits like incapable - are that you either have a claim on a kingdom or empire with a Saxon ruler with elective succession, or you have a Saxon dynasty member who is a king or emperor, again with elective succession. I can't find a condition that specifies that the title must be kingdom or empire title (the ones I have found evidently don't work in that context) nor can I find a condition that stipulates that the holder of the kingdom/empire you have a claim on is Saxon. Nor can I seem to find quite the right condition for the claim part ("any_claim" doesn't seem to quite work here).