Anders Friday GAME

[unmerged(74599)]

in this game, there was NO SUPL TRICK. I just send some extra free suplies to UK and other minor alies. Its my choise, what i want to do - built new units or produce suplies and give them to alies!! Only problem in that game was very poor dans game. He isnt noob. He is simply poor player. Thats only problem.

In 1936, 1937,1938, the Americans were not giving away anything to anybody.

Taking advantage of the fact that the natural alliances in the game, make it so all the resource rich/supply heavy nations are on one side, and the resource poor/supply poor nations are on the other, and then magnify that effect by just giving stuff away, as if the US had ESP and knew in 1936 that it was going to be in a war with Germany in 1941, and in an alliance with Joseph Stalin in 1941 ( ), unbalances the game.

The US is not an ally of UK or USSR until it joins the war, and the game is not at all balanced for such MP exploits. All the resources and supplies are balanced for SP on the basis that US will be trading in exchange with UK and giving just as good deals to Japan, and worse deals for USSR, even a little bit to Italy and Germany. That is the way the game is designed, and the way it is balanced.

Here are the values from the 1936 USA.ai file.

favored = {
JAP = 100
FRA = 100
CAN = 100
AST = 100
NZL = 100
ENG = 100
BEL = 90
HOL = 90
SPR = 30
POL = 20
CZE = 20
TUR = 10
IRQ = 100
PER = 100
POR = 10
CHI = 10
}

According to this if you are giving away supplies to England, you should be giving them Japan as well. USSR doesn't even make the list.

The fact is that the US giving supplies away is just front end loading the US power into the begining of the war, and those units being produced are US units not British ones, when in fact US power is not supposed to be available to the Allies until the middle of the war. So yes, the game is not balanced to have the US make British units in 1938 for use in 1939, it is designed so that the US will will make US units for use in 1941. That is how the game is balanced.

Germany needs that head start at the begining of the game, poor play or good.

The results are predictable. As far as I am concerned the US giving anything away in the pre-war years is gamey. Why bother? Why not just make the US player sell to UK at 50% or some reasonable rate of exchange? That is how you get a good long game.

 

[unmerged(12303)]

Why bother?

:rofl: because all of the players are exploiting the game engine in one way or other? :wacko:

 

[unmerged(74599)]

I do because everyone else is, is just a dodge. And a poor one at that.

In anycase, the issue here is setting a standard, if USA is going to be throwing around supplies, then the Axis have got to be aware of this so they can deploy their own exploits. UK releasing Malaysia, so they can be flush in raw materials, and then having USA dump supplies on them reduces the game a simple equation of who has the most mass to apply at two key critical points in 1939.

 

[unmerged(12303)]

If all players in a game accept that and play on why should we judge their play style. Noteing the ammount of exploits i heard being used in this game I cant see why one side would complain - esp since they did know about the exploits since 36 and still they played on till danzig. And frankly i dont see the main players complaining just sideliners watching the show. As long as they have fun alls good.
I also dont see that in the aussie rules (I assume/heard those were used?) that usa cant send supplies to russia or other ally. Since anders seems to have been the host? and not stopped that (he was russia after all) under the no exploit rule that means the method was accepted?

Obv the 36 scen is akward to balance and I dont understand why people just not play the vanilla 38 or 39 ones. I assume everybody/most people just like to build stuff - as much as possible and dont give shit about tactical and strategic war - just zerg the enemy.

 

[unmerged(74599)]

Well, as you can see the issue of the Malaysia exploit has been topical since page one of this thread. The major complaint is from Germany, Dan, not imo, a minor player, and in fact the author of the opening post. People wanting to play on, despite these problems is not suprising at all -- i mean we are talking about addicts are we not?

I have more or less expressed they same things you are now saying, when I said "I can't really blame someone for taking advantage of the game system." It's not an issue of cheating, its an issue of establishing rules. This is just another great example of why there should be clear rules about supply and trade exploiting.

Most of the games I play in there is really no issue with Russia cutting off the Germans, as its fairly well established that they have to maintain trade, and USA will trade with the Japanese after it goes human and when there is no embargo. The issue of USA feeding supplies early is not an issue because there is no early USA, and Russia is too busy zeroing his supplies so that he doesn't get smoked in Barbarossa. That is just the way its done.

 

[unmerged(12303)]

Well, as you can see the issue of the Malaysia exploit has been topical since page one of this thread. The major complaint is from Germany, Dan, not imo, a minor player, and in fact the author of the opening post. People wanting to play on, despite these problems is not suprising at all -- i mean we are talking about addicts are we not?
.

You can be an addict but resolve an issue "normally" - apparantly the complaint was not heard - instead of editing the save / starting over / removing from the "exploiter" x ammount of supplies the group played on with terms it decided "fair".

 

[unmerged(74599)]

Your kibitzing on my kibitzing.

I see your point but, listen, I think you are missing something, I am not criticizing anyones conduct here, or strictly kibitzing, because I am talking about the theory of it, in particular in the context of another game I am in with someone on this thread, ala:

cueball.... Hiensen kick Dan's ass controling only one of the alied major countryies. (UK, FRA). With two of them game will end till xmass 39... Same thing in our EiR wednesday game. Join my France in EiR and Hiensens UK from this game.
Playing france from 36 make no sense if UK is control by good player, because axis havnt any chance there.

My response:

People should really agree as Hiensen says, on rules about supply exploiting. Simple, if Germany does not supply exploit, and UK does and France do, then the results are going to be more or less like the above any game. It is no victory, at all, just a misunderstanding about how the game is played. If both sides are playing with supply trick allowed then its a fair game, if not, then its not a fair game.

You should consider that in the Wednesday EIR game, niether Italy or Germany or Japan are using any supply tricks at all, (we all know them its no big secret), just straight trades, and with the normal trade system harder than in vanilla, and Germany had 20 - 40 supply cost for most of the pre-war period.

Germany and Italy are deep into to France. Yes, it is true that UK refused to support you but part of the reason that he is less able is because UK doesn't supply exploit also.

That is the context, for me, and so part of my interest in this discussion.

 

[unmerged(88113)]

Dude, you are realy weird. You critisize me because I send some suplies to alies. BTW i send extra free supplies to Japan and Italy. Thats should be forbiden too? You talking about balanced game. In 6 game pers game is very balanced. Germany are very strong. They need only good player. Thats all. Dont defend Dans poor game. Thats not usa foult, that he want fight in turkey (without taking grece - LOL) not in France.

Maybe you should ask axis, how Adam (italy) get full central planing, full havk, full interv in 1938? That is f... g exploit. Using lag to influence other human controled nation. Using lag to send spies. (twice i get 3 spies in same time from germany). I propose to stop this stupid conversation, because its change nothing. Players here are using exploit and they will.

 

[unmerged(88113)]

btw.
In our wednesday game i dont get any free supl from UK. Be clear, and i keep all my troops in France. There wasn't any supl exploit. But there was lag influencing exploit ger - ita. Consider that. Is that historical? Or is that good for balanced game?

 

[a.d.a.m]

my ass there was lag influeing in the wednesday game, check the damn history log.

 

[unmerged(64512)]

do we play friday 19 cet ?
It's better if you continue your discusison in an appropriate thread( like a rules thread or wednesday game), dan was hungry cuz of context (everybody can do mistakes) and accusated me for false things in the fly, my response was posting pics here, he apologized and I did the same, there is in fact no conflict between the two opponents we are in the game !
So please stop making this thread become a game's ideology battlefield, the only things that really count in our game are the good fights we are going to have and follow next sessions.
Axis made strategicals mistakes but no much tacticals ones,that explain why they are still alive and still harrass uk.The amount of supplies and rares doesn't count here, (everybody know that uk have enough home ressources to get supplies itself).
However let us continue our game . All can do mistakes, all can consider some actions as normal and others as exploit, there's no point to reconsider rules while playing, let's do it at the end or when starting new one.
You're going to steal the allied ongoing victory and this is not fair.Thank you very much

 

[unmerged(74599)]

Fair enough, no ideological battlefield.

Dude, you are realy weird. You critisize me because I send some suplies to alies. BTW i send extra free supplies to Japan and Italy. Thats should be forbiden too? You talking about balanced game. In 6 game pers game is very balanced. Germany are very strong. They need only good player. Thats all. Dont defend Dans poor game. Thats not usa foult, that he want fight in turkey (without taking grece - LOL) not in France.

Maybe you should ask axis, how Adam (italy) get full central planing, full havk, full interv in 1938? That is f... g exploit. Using lag to influence other human controled nation. Using lag to send spies. (twice i get 3 spies in same time from germany). I propose to stop this stupid conversation, because its change nothing. Players here are using exploit and they will.

I know how he does it, he bugs Germany to influence him every five seconds, and demands that it be done on the minute that it is possible, every week. Germany is quite irritated by it, because it is expensive. :rofl:

Game log:

name = "Predator (custom):adam"
name = "adam (custom):?"
name = "Predator (custom):k"
name = "Predator (custom):yeah this is the dead end"
name = "Cueball (custom):what dead end?"
name = "0:00 March 26, 1937 : 23. Hoheishidan has been upgraded to Infantry '36."
name = "Predator (custom):influencing "
name = "Predator (custom):his sliders cant be moved when at 200"
name = "Predator (custom):relations with me"
name = "0:00 March 27, 1937 : The attachment to 12. Hoheishidan has been upgraded to Great War Medium Artillery."
name = "Cueball (custom):sure they can"
name = "adam (custom):that's what I told him"
name = "Predator (custom):yes maybe 1 out of 10 influences"
name = "Cueball (custom):yes maybe a little more frequently"
name = "6:00 March 28, 1937 : Netherlands cancelled a trade agreement they had with us."
name = "Cueball (custom):I have never noticed a differene"
name = "Predator (custom):there is believe me"
name = "adam (custom):influe?"

[SNIP 10 lines down]
name = "adam (custom):influe" name = "Predator (custom):apr 9"
name = "Predator (custom):calm down !" name = "Cueball (custom):I am not sure if ITaly joining axis when dow'ed by Allies is automatic"
name = "Predator (custom):: P"
name = "Cueball (custom)r not"
name = "23:00 April 4, 1937 : We have successfully sent a spy to Japan. "
name = "0:00 April 5, 1937 : The attachment to 1. Hoheishidan has been upgraded to Great War Medium Artillery."
name = "0:00 April 6, 1937 : 9. Hoheishidan has been upgraded to Infantry '36."
name = "0:00 April 6, 1937 : South Africa had Minister resigns ."
name = "0:00 April 7, 1937 : The attachment to 12. Hoheishidan has been upgraded to Early Artillery."
name = "Predator (custom):Cýueball can you buy some more rares for me"
name = "Cueball (custom):maybe"
name = "0:00 April 8, 1937 : The attachment to 1. Hoheishidan has been upgraded to Great War Heavy Artillery."
name = "adam (custom):influe?"
name = "Predator (custom):apr 9"
name = "Cueball (custom):30?"
name = "DEX (everyone)red, can we make faster?"
name = "adam (custom):reminding you"
name = "adam (custom):^"

and that is all that Adam ever talks about. He's a by the numbers guy.

I suspect that if you got three spies that is because Pred is lagging badly, and isn't intetional. And no, I am not critcizing, you just talking about how the to make a fair game. Really, you can't be saying that if one team is playing one way, and the other the other way, that this results in a fair game? I am just trying to be clear on the way we are playing.

In anycase if you have an issue with the other players in the game, spying, lag influencing, and the like then bring it up on the Wednesday game thread.

Good enough?

 

[a.d.a.m]

I am paid him more damn money than my influeing costs. This is why I don't take subservient minors, because dumbass people get irrated they have to influe their ally to make them more powerful....not my fault you guys wanna run around with weak ass countries when you could get influenced up in 1937 and 1938 instead of 1939. Notice how strong my italy is also ty very much.

Also not to mention I have gifted Germany with 2k supplies and have been asking for literally no econ from them what-so-ever all game long. Japan with 10k energy for 5k rare.

probably the real reason you seen me asking so much is because I was sending money to germany every chance I had and he was making more than the 67 required every 9 days off of me, while I was struggling with 48 supplies in my stockpile to hold 25 money a day from world trade.

 

[Predatororc]

Yes Dexter, you're right, I'm an exploiter, you're not.
40 or 50 forts and 170 infantry as France by Danzig and I bet you're proud of all that, you used no exploits, you have amazing skills. Anyway, that is my last game with you after accusing me of lag influencing.

I'm not irritated by influencing anyone, adam.. I was irritated because you asked me every 2 mins while I was busy with a lot of things. Yes, this is not the thread, sorry.

 

[unmerged(74599)]

Perhaps we should post this stuff about our game on our thread?

 

[unmerged(88113)]

pred, i talk about Anders Friday game!!!!!!! It wasnt about you. Dude

 

[Terminator]

Perhaps we should post this stuff about our game on our thread?

Excellent idea

 

[Dan_]

Yes Dexter, you're right, I'm an exploiter, you're not.
40 or 50 forts and 170 infantry as France by Danzig and I bet you're proud of all that, you used no exploits, you have amazing skills. Anyway, that is my last game with you after accusing me of lag influencing.



lol

 

[Terminator]

What time today ?

 

[unmerged(64512)]

up to you guys
I'll be around tonight