Yeah, right. Like it is easy to add whole new option... But if someone will make mod to replace sprites with counters, I will surely use it.
And what if I don't like sprites?
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Yeah, right. Like it is easy to add whole new option... But if someone will make mod to replace sprites with counters, I will surely use it.
I guess this thread is turning into a counters in general thread, as there has been an answer from Johan.
Tell me, why is no counters great news?
Why is it that so many people cannot seem to see that it is possible to have both? And that adding an option is not the same as forcing someone to use it.
I'm acutally really curious about this, because I really don't understand this level of antagonism between two fractions of players that are involved and interested enough in a kind of game that they use the forums.
Ps. As for the
Tell me, why is no counters great news?
Why is it that so many people cannot seem to see that it is possible to have both? And that adding an option is not the same as forcing someone to use it.
I'm acutally really curious about this, because I really don't understand this level of antagonism between two fractions of players that are involved and interested enough in a kind of game that they use the forums.
Ps. As for the
I don't get what you're trying to tell us.
That this thread has received few replies indicates that most people are neutral on the subject. I know I would never choose counters in my own games, and would be disappointed if screenshots used counters. Nevertheless, I do not have any strong objection to it being added as an option. That said, of all the new features the game could possibly include, this would be bottom priority for me.
Well, it seems to be a play on "Where is your God now?" In other words, you have no hope. Perhaps this is a reference to the difficulty of modding in such a change. If the line were followed by an evil laugh, would it make more sense?
I know many are also neutral, but I remember other threads (I think it was on the HoI3 forum) where more people participated[1] and where the debate was more heated - or even hostile.
So even though many (most?) people are neutral about it, some people are not. And it seems like these groups are rather large (or maybe they just are just proportionality louder).
I suppose you're right
not much to add there.[1] I suppose that the neutral ones stayed quiet, thats what I do when I have nothing to add to a discussion
It's simply because the way I play my games is better than anyone elses and that's the only option that should be available!
Seriously, what is it with the obsession some people seem to have for counters? What do they add to the game that animated units can't?
Because Paradox's animated units are ugly. Until I think they look good, I will use counters.
I am a Counters man when it comes to HOI3 because it feels right for the game but if you want to use sprites I obviously have no problem because its your choice. As regards VII I suspect that the counters would look wrong.
For a laugh I once created a basic 3D counter for EU3 from one of the .x map buildings just to see what it would look like on map....... not good.
As an alternative Paradox could consider the AGEOD approach and allow the player to choose a simple 3D box, this would have the added benefit of allowing players to modify the texture very easily and create a style of there own and should also look perfect for the period perhaps better looking than an animation.
For a laugh I once created a basic 3D counter for EU3 from one of the .x map buildings just to see what it would look like on map....... not good.
As an alternative Paradox could consider the AGEOD approach and allow the player to choose a simple 3D box, this would have the added benefit of allowing players to modify the texture very easily and create a style of there own and should also look perfect for the period perhaps better looking than an animation.
how do you see a nice looking unit then? tbh, i don't like those huge single sprites. after i got used to Vicky's sprites, those single sprites just look intimidating to me. although the fact that those units will be detailed and will change with technology makes up for it.
Actually scratch that idea I just looked at the samurai animation and its great the problem is that the other animations seem poor compared to it.
Personally I think that counters look better (or rather less bad) then figures.
There are several reasons for this.
Interaction - in many games you have to click on where the figure actually is not where the 3D image appears. The transparent part of the figure may still be considered part of it for clicking on it - thus blocking things that are visible behind it. The 3D effect also causes problems when things get hidden behind other objects - both EU3 and HoI3 suffer from small island syndrome where it is hard to interact with a small island (such as see what buildings are on it, or select the ships in port because a land unit is so big as to cover the whole island.
Appearance - often figures don't mesh properly with the map - such as standing partially in the ground, or hovering above the ground, which also throws off where the figure actually is as you assume it is on the ground further away.
Compatibility - in many games a city or a representative building will only come to the figures knees, which spoils the whole effect.
Information - a figure gives little information about composition. Getting a cavalry figure if the army has at least one cavalry unit doesn't give much information (unless cavalry is very rare). If it shows a cavalry unit if the army is at least 1/3 cavalry gives a bit more. This still doesn't give information about how big the unit is.
A good counter could give unit type and also combat strength and movement speed, and leader's ability.
This is not to say a bad counter is better than a good figure.
In EU3 I avoid zooming out to see the "counters" as there are just flat flags that are hard to select, and don't add anything at all.
Conversely in HoI3 I have it set to always show counters - in fact I don't think I have ever seen the sprites - except in screen shots.
NATO symbols on a counter wouldn't be in period but the NATO infantry and cavalry symbols are similar to things that were in use in the period.
Conversely replacing one very large figure "representative" of the army with one medium figure for a general, and one small figure for each "regiment" could convey a lot more information and look better.
There are several reasons for this.
Interaction - in many games you have to click on where the figure actually is not where the 3D image appears. The transparent part of the figure may still be considered part of it for clicking on it - thus blocking things that are visible behind it. The 3D effect also causes problems when things get hidden behind other objects - both EU3 and HoI3 suffer from small island syndrome where it is hard to interact with a small island (such as see what buildings are on it, or select the ships in port because a land unit is so big as to cover the whole island.
Appearance - often figures don't mesh properly with the map - such as standing partially in the ground, or hovering above the ground, which also throws off where the figure actually is as you assume it is on the ground further away.
Compatibility - in many games a city or a representative building will only come to the figures knees, which spoils the whole effect.
Information - a figure gives little information about composition. Getting a cavalry figure if the army has at least one cavalry unit doesn't give much information (unless cavalry is very rare). If it shows a cavalry unit if the army is at least 1/3 cavalry gives a bit more. This still doesn't give information about how big the unit is.
A good counter could give unit type and also combat strength and movement speed, and leader's ability.
This is not to say a bad counter is better than a good figure.
In EU3 I avoid zooming out to see the "counters" as there are just flat flags that are hard to select, and don't add anything at all.
Conversely in HoI3 I have it set to always show counters - in fact I don't think I have ever seen the sprites - except in screen shots.
NATO symbols on a counter wouldn't be in period but the NATO infantry and cavalry symbols are similar to things that were in use in the period.
Conversely replacing one very large figure "representative" of the army with one medium figure for a general, and one small figure for each "regiment" could convey a lot more information and look better.
I wouldn't want to play a game like HoI3 without counters, it just makes the map look more clean and information on your troops and the enemies is easier to read. It also adds a lot of immersion to the game cause it looks like you were moving tokens on a real strategic map.
In games in earlier periods, like Rome, Vicky or EU I never really missed them. Sure, the information on troop types is not as easy to read and it doesn't look as clean but it doesn't need to, as you simply don't have such a mass of troops or even different troop types. I can see a problem with this in a Vicky game progressing to WWI like wars, so I would have appreciated at least the option to display counters as in Vicky 1, but we'll have to see how it plays out.
In games in earlier periods, like Rome, Vicky or EU I never really missed them. Sure, the information on troop types is not as easy to read and it doesn't look as clean but it doesn't need to, as you simply don't have such a mass of troops or even different troop types. I can see a problem with this in a Vicky game progressing to WWI like wars, so I would have appreciated at least the option to display counters as in Vicky 1, but we'll have to see how it plays out.
