And What About a Good Old Martian Invasion in Stellaris?

[BrokenSky]

size 16 prescripted world. this means that you'll have to move your capital later on...

Fair point this is worse now that not all staring worlds are size 16.

Climate Restoration (the tech you need for Tomb Worlds and to terraform the "Terraforming candidates") is currently marked as Tier 3 tech. That is late game if I ever saw it.
On the timescale at wich Mars becomes "habitable", habitats might have been in service for decades (if you go that route) or you already have 2-3 sectors.
Terraforming Mars is a nice little fluff thing with no danger to game balance at all.

With stuff like having Trappist and it's 3 habitable candicates spawning? There I could see a real danger for game balance from the human start.


Adding primitive civilisation planet - possibly even totally different habitability - is a whole nother story altogether. Especially as the chance of being noticed during the annexation is non-existent.
I could see it comming as part of a Civic, maybe. If the Planetclass was fixed (same as yours or at least same Climate Class as yours), to avoid just throwing you a whole new class of planets to grab. Or if they were backwarsd like Iron Age (at wich point Culture Shock takes 100 years to overcome).
But throwing you a primitive Civilsiation with all risks of invasion negated?

There a major disconnect in your argument where you seem to think that the fact that it's better than Sol means it's too strong. This might work if your argument weren't that Sol isn't particularly strong, when other examples I gave which were stronger to begin with and also cost nothing are ignored. I will concede that Sol is a bad example, but why is a chance of getting primitives within your start system (this) so much more OP than getting primitives within your starting borders (normal RNG thing which already happens at gamestart) that it needs to cost a permanent policy slot?

 

[Primarch Victus]

Space battles? Huh. The moment I heard about War of The Worlds I envisioned unstoppable walkers destroying Industrial Era armies. I had never considered the idea of space battles.

In addition, that brings up an interesting point I haven't seen anyone bring up: the Martians aren't interstellar aliens, but interplanetary ones. As far as I'm concerned in the novel they sent their tripods to Earth using a gun of sorts built into the surface of the planet; it seems they don't really have "spaceships" as we would understand them, let alone the "Travel a hundred light years like a station wagon crossing the United States" FTL spaceships.

Now, this doesn't mean you shouldn't play as the Martians just because they probably don't have FTL (the defining characteristic of an empire in Stellaris), just that the Martians demonstrate that there should be a distinction between interplanetary and interstellar spacefaring civilizations.

Let me explain: In the current system, an Early Space Age civilization will have a single space station in orbit (1 military power, how amusing) and then soon blossom into a full-fledged FTL-capable empire. However, that just seems a little...how do you say...missing a few steps? How weird is it that in Stellaris civilizations go from "Oh hey we just put up our first satellite." to "Oh hey, we can now generate wormholes."?

Personally I think that we should have intermediate steps between that first satellite and FLT-travel, showing a progression from being confined to a single planet to being interplanetary:
Mid-Space Age: Having made their first baby steps into their orbit, they are now ready to begin exploring their own solar system. sends out probes (i.e. science ships) to other planets in their solar system.
Late Space Age: They are beginning to experiment with reaching other bodies in their system. Landing on moon/other planet in solar system.
Digital Age: This civilization has entered a Digital Age. Computers and other electronic devices dominate almost all aspects of society, from communications and technological research to military applications and entertainment. A Digital Age civilization would establish colonies and mining and research stations (if applicable) in their system, then develop FLT travel.

Personally, I think the idea of an Interplanetary Civilization provides an interesting stepping stone. In addition, did you know you can build ships without an FTL drive? There's no reason not to do so, but in essence an Interplanetary Civilization would work like an Empire that's just confined to one system and can't put FLT drives into their ships.

I partially agree with you. My point to use the Martians in Stellaris is: they are one of the oldest and most iconic alien species in science fiction history -- so why don't use them like a space empire in Stellaris? Think of the game with the Martians as being an alternate reality where, after conquering Earth, they are now are starting to extend their tentacles (both figuratively and in real life) through the galaxy, doing what they know better: conquering and enslaving those pesky primitives!

 

[The Founder]

I will concede that Sol is a bad example, but why is a chance of getting primitives within your start system (this) so much more OP than getting primitives within your starting borders (normal RNG thing which already happens at gamestart) that it needs to cost a permanent policy slot?

The same reason you want to have it in your starting system in the first place:
Planning Security.

If you know you have a guaranteed Pre-FTL species in your home system, your strategy will adapt accordingly.
If you know they have your habitability trait, that makes "non-adaptive" and "sedentary" guaranteed free picks.
If you do not know, there is a 6/9 chance that they will allow you to add a whole section of the planet wheel to your starting colonisation rooster.
Both are just the kind of early game boosts that are notorios to snowball, ever since the old slavery-rush days.

If you do not care for archievements:
I already said there are mods out there that do it.
There literally is a mod called Mars Attacks and it has been for 1 year now. Modding the System Initialisers is (somewhat) trivial.

If Archievements do not mater, you could have done this for a year now. And it migh even still work without updates, the Sol System setup has not changed relevantly since 1.0. Indeed 1.5 will propably the first time they touch the template by adding "terraforming candidate" to mars.

If Archievements do mater, balance has to be considered.

 

[terrycloth]

I think it could be balanced by having Mars be a particularly bad starting world - small size (10 tiles?) with few resources. I'd also start the Martians with very low population. They need to take Earth to be a viable start, basically.

Start the Martians with Continental Preference, but Mars is type Tundra? I guess that wouldn't work since homeworlds automatically have 100% habitability.

 

[Slynx]

so why don't use them like a space empire in Stellaris? think in the game with the Martians as being an alternatev reality where, after conquering Earth, they are now are starting to extend their tentacles (both figuratively and in real life) through the galaxy, doing what they know better: conquering and enslaving those pesky primitives!

oh, that's easy. wait for 1.5. buy Utopia. create custom empire with Syncretic Evolution. start the game. enslave all 2nd species. roleplay it as "mars was dying. so martians attacked earth and won. now they live on earth and humanity is enslaved"

 

[Primarch Victus]

Thanks, but I still prefer to use H.G. Wells' Martians in my game.

 

[BrokenSky]

The same reason you want to have it in your starting system in the first place:
Planning Security.

If you know you have a guaranteed Pre-FTL species in your home system, your strategy will adapt accordingly.
If you know they have your habitability trait, that makes "non-adaptive" and "sedentary" guaranteed free picks.
If you do not know, there is a 6/9 chance that they will allow you to add a whole section of the planet wheel to your starting colonisation rooster.
Both are just the kind of early game boosts that are notorios to snowball, ever since the old slavery-rush days.

If you do not care for archievements:
I already said there are mods out there that do it.
There literally is a mod called Mars Attacks and it has been for 1 year now. Modding the System Initialisers is (somewhat) trivial.

If Archievements do not mater, you could have done this for a year now. And it migh even still work without updates, the Sol System setup has not changed relevantly since 1.0. Indeed 1.5 will propably the first time they touch the template by adding "terraforming candidate" to mars.

If Archievements do mater, balance has to be considered.

You do realise the suggestion was for a small chance to be given something like the Sol system but with you starting on mars as an RNG thing, right? Like, you'd pick random on the starting system and occasionally you'd get this Easter egg where you have a renamed and version of the Sol system with all the planets in different parts of their orbits and you start on mars with a pre-FTL human earth also present. Not a guaranteed thing?

 

[n00bypl4y3r]

There's already a mod like this, something like fallen empires expanded. One of the added fallen empires is based in the Sol system, but their capital is a Gaia world Mars (called Martian Throne). I can't remember if Earth is destroyed or just enslaved by them.

 

[Slynx]

One of the added fallen empires is based in the Sol system, but their capital is a Gaia world Mars

yep. sol imperium. from fallen empires expanded http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=815380349
but it's extra large. so probably not suited for players.

 

[Cannes]

The description for the Defense Army tech (Planetary Defenses) is a pretty blatant reference to the novel:
There may come a time when intellects, vast and cool and unsympathetic, regard our worlds with envy and draw plans against us. We must be ready.

In addition, I think your idea is really cool. And not only that but believe me, it will happen if someone with the right coding skills hears about this. As far as I'm concerned Paradox is no enemy to mods, and Stellaris is just BEGGING for the mod treatment: the question of Warhammer 40k, Star Wars, and Star Trek total conversion mods (Vulcans as Fanatic Materialist Xenophile Federation Builders, eh?) is not "if" but in which order they will appear. I wouldn't be surprised if small mods were already out now.

That being said, however, the distinguishing feature of the Martians from a military standpoint was their tripods, something which doesn't have a real equivalent in stellaris. Then again I suppose "Titanic Beast" could be a rough stand-in for your "seemingly unstoppable walker" type forces such as the Martian walkers or AT-ATs since I imagine "big mechanical walker" has roughly the same effect as "huge monster-esque lifeform".

In any case, I fully believe an HG Martian Empire would be a great idea.

Small mods? There is already a total conversion star trek mod.

 

[Admiral]

Small mods? There is already a total conversion star trek mod.

What about Star Wars and Warhammer 40k? I'm also curious as to how Federation ships are worked in; while they have weapons, Federation starships are multi-purpose ships meant for diplomatic and scientific duties, not specifically military ones. How did they work that into Stellaris mechanics? I presume part of it was making it so that you could give weapons to Science Ships.

 

[Cannes]

What about Star Wars and Warhammer 40k? I'm also curious as to how Federation ships are worked in; while they have weapons, Federation starships are multi-purpose ships meant for diplomatic and scientific duties, not specifically military ones. How did they work that into Stellaris mechanics? I presume part of it was making it so that you could give weapons to Science Ships.

There's a big star wars mod also. Not sure about Warhammer though