And another little teaser...

unmerged(9109) · Sep 25, 2004

boromir said:
"naval base trades", "temporary" != permanent province exchanges

And as for the AI you mentioned in another post, based on previous Paradox experiences, how strong do you think it will really be? Not very. So we have a feature, that's fit more for the EU2/Vicky period, being put into a WW2 game, with no basis in actual history, just ripe for abuse.

Then do not abuse it. The "ask military access to attack a third country" is considered abuse in HOI1. That's why I never do that because I consider it a lame tactic.

I can play a game without abusing of every single feature that gives the human player an advantage against the AI and enjoy it the same. And in MP is just easy to have a few house rules that limit this behaviour to what is acceptable by everyone.

OTOH I consider a welcome addition a feature that allows me to partition conquered land between allied nations. If I want to give bessarabia to Romania in exchange of that land in ukraine who is occupied by rumanian forces I should be able to ask ingame instead of having to edit savefiles.

I prefer to have a tool which is sometimes useful and sometimes not rather than having nothing at all.

boromir · Sep 25, 2004

Copper Nicus said:
How about - "for solving main problem of the HoI1 - spoils of war"? In HoI1 without heavy editing it was impossible to reorganize your borders after the conquest of the country. Your ally had provinces X, Y, Z, you had Q,W,E - all mixed together.

This option seems like a very useful thing to correct that. You give your ally provinces X, Y, Z and it's maybe enough for him to consider giving you province Q...

I don't think border corrections after annexation (or liberation?) are your typical run of the mill trades. Such an option would be nice, but needs to be handled separately imho. Maybe just after a side hits the "annexation" button, offers can be made about ceding newly conquered territory to other sides that took part in the annexation. Less chance for abuse and more realistic.

Anyway, if this option stays, I just hope that at least the provinces that can be traded will be limited to non-cores ...

unmerged(12303) · Sep 25, 2004

Trading/selling of resources, techs (limited) , units (limited) should all be in as they did happen and were feasable. Trading of land did not happen - simple as that. All the examples given can be done through demand core diplomacy actions or military access. Adding such a feature allows only exploits as the ai can never be taught to think which trade is logical or not in the long term.
This is a total war simulation - nobody gives land anway for anything - they come and take it.

In vicky still the comp does silly deals - bah in EU2 I get lame offers - I somehow doubt that in HOI it will be different. So why open this potential gate? So that people are happy with giving somebody territory - for gods sake its a WW2 game not a free for all. Play Vicky if you want that. Otherwise just scrap all the events and the 3 alliances as whats the point of that - after all we want to be able to do anything... :wacko:

F

Darkrenown · Sep 25, 2004

boromir said:
"naval base trades", "temporary" != permanent province exchanges

If the temporary land trade lasts for the duration of the war, what's the difference between that and a permanent exchange in HoI?

As for exploiting this, well sure, you could (although there are ways to balance this, could you buy Paris from France in Vic?

), but you could always not exploit every loophole in the game. Honestly, even if every possible exploit is removed you can still use cheat codes or edit your save. Don't want exploits? Don't do it, it's that simple.

"Wah! I type in 'unlimited IC and panzers' and the game is too easy! HoI2 is unbalanced

"

Orthank · Sep 25, 2004

Darkrenown said:
If the temporary land trade lasts for the duration of the war, what's the difference between that and a permanent exchange in HoI?

As for exploiting this, well sure, you could (although there are ways to balance this, could you buy Paris from France in Vic? ), but you could always not exploit every loophole in the game. Honestly, even if every possible exploit is removed you can still use cheat codes or edit your save. Don't want exploits? Don't do it, it's that simple.

"Wah! I type in 'unlimited IC and panzers' and the game is too easy! HoI2 is unbalanced "

Dark please understand that lots of people don't play HoI single player - because it's boring and faaaar to easy to play with AI, but they do play alot multiplayer. So all possible tricks and exploits have to be avoided because human vs human will use all possible ways to win.

Darkrenown · Sep 25, 2004

Fiendix said:
Trading of land did not happen - simple as that.

Hmm, What about Italy/Japan with Vichy France?

Darkrenown · Sep 25, 2004

Orthank said:
Dark please understand that lots of people don't play HoI single player - because it's boring and faaaar to easy to play with AI, but they do play alot multiplayer. So all possible tricks and exploits have to be avoided because human vs human will use all possible ways to win.

House rules. Someone cheats, you kick them.

billy bob · Sep 25, 2004

boromir said:
More options ... nice, but also more potential abuses ... not so nice. I didn't really like the Vic diplomacy mode, and this looks pretty similiar. The screenie implies you can trade provinces for other stuff ... can anyone give me any historical examples of this during the WW2 period? Even 1 or 2 examples (though I can't recall any) do not warrant such an option imho ... It's supposed to be a WW2 total war game, not an empire building CIV-style game ... oh dear, now I'm worried this will end up Vicky 1936-1947

Also, on the trade screen, I see no options of giving equipment - selling tanks/planes etc. Surely, that makes much more sense in the WW2 period than provinces ... is this option somewhere else? Or is this only to be simulated by events like in HOI? (well, CORE HOI).

I agree with you on that. But if they do do a province exchange it better be only 1 province at a time. Perhaps it could have an off-on switch?

Raczynski · Sep 25, 2004

Darkrenown said:
removed you can still use cheat codes or edit your save. Don't want exploits? Don't do it, it's that simple.

But why create exploits in the first place? (that's a rethorical question, don't expect rational answers from a beta

)

Orthank · Sep 25, 2004

Darkrenown said:
House rules. Someone cheats, you kick them.

:rofl:
Good game does not need house rules.

Darkrenown · Sep 25, 2004

Raczynski said:
But why create exploits in the first place? (that's a rethorical question, don't expect rational answers from a beta )

Because it's impossible to remove every feature that can be exploited? And are you trying to insult all the betas there? That's rather offensive.

boromir · Sep 25, 2004

Well, to me the option remains ahistorical & cheesy. It's in the same class as Germany invading South America in 1936.

It's not just a matter of exploiting it (yes, can be fixed by house rules, but as a general rule I would say that it's poor game mechanics that lead to more house rules), it just doesn't fit that period

Raczynski · Sep 25, 2004

Darkrenown said:
And are you trying to insult all the betas there? That's rather offensive.

Nice try, but it's not an insult, it's a fact. Betas will always look on game throu "pink glasses", if you know what I mean (I don't if such phrase exists in English )
And BTW, I found this certain feature not needed.

Orthank · Sep 25, 2004

Raczynski said:
Nice try, but it's not an insult, it's a fact. Betas will always look on game throu "pink glasses", if you know what I mean (I don't if such phrase exists in English )

There is a little bit of true in what you are saying, but there are also such Betas that see problems in everything

.

Darkrenown · Sep 25, 2004

Orthank said:
:rofl:
Good game does not need house rules.

I've yet to play any game multiplayer that doesn't need them.

Quick examples:

Victoria: Don't sell you claims for the duation of a colonial war. Don't give away tech in exchange for another tech to trade techs without losing RP etc.

Battlefield 1942: Don't campt the main base, don't kill your team mates.

Warcraft: Don't build your towers in another player's area.

Splinter cell 2: Plays must take their turn with the spies and the mercs, not quit when they've played as their favorite side.

Darkrenown · Sep 25, 2004

Raczynski said:
Nice try, but it's not an insult, it's a fact. Betas will always look on game throu "pink glasses", if you know what I mean (I don't if such phrase exists in English )
And BTW, I found this certain feature not needed.

Nice try? What are you talking about? You said betas were not rational, which is insulting. If you dodn't mean it that way, just say

Orthank · Sep 25, 2004

Darkrenown said:
Nice try? What are you talking about? You said betas were not rational, which is insulting. If you dodn't mean it that way, just say

Dark there is no insult in what Raczynski wrote, calm down.

According to house rules in multiplayer games i play chess alot - it doesn't need any house rules

.

boromir · Sep 25, 2004

Darkrenown said:
I've yet to play any game multiplayer that doesn't need them.

Some just need them more than others

Darkrenown · Sep 25, 2004

Orthank said:
Dark there is no insult in what Raczynski wrote, calm down.

According to house rules in multiplayer games i play chess alot - it doesn't need any house rules .

I'm not uncalm, I merely asked him if he meant to insult the betas or not.

As for chess, well, it's basic rules are pretty simple, and it did have a rather long beta period

unmerged(1972) · Sep 25, 2004

Orthank said:
Dark there is no insult in what Raczynski wrote, calm down.

According to house rules in multiplayer games i play chess alot - it doesn't need any house rules .

Chess also has a lot less complex game mechanic than most computer games.

And another little teaser...

Corporal

Colonel

The hated one

Star marshal

Public Enemy

Star marshal

Star marshal

The crazy little mushroom

Beautiful and Unique Snowflake

Public Enemy

Star marshal

Colonel

Beautiful and Unique Snowflake

Public Enemy

Star marshal

Star marshal

Public Enemy

Colonel

Star marshal

Second Lieutenant