Ancient Religions

[superskierpat]

Not exactly.
There was never really a proper Hellenism symbol until Alexander the Great expansion. The "holiest" symbol was the Olympic laurel, which is green obviously. This was also used in the Macedonian pezhetairoi shields, surrounding the Argive star (aka Vergina sun). This one here

While Anax is free to do a revamped hellenic icon if he wants to, I'm not sure I want to have to go through the trouble of maintaining that religious icons file, I tend to like keeping things closer to vanilla and the temple symbol is pretty representative of hellenes I believe.

The other possible symbol would be the Delphic Epsilon, but that unfortunately now falls under the category you're saying. It is being used (considered is probably a better term) for the secret society called Team Epsilon which no one really knows if actually exists.
.

Who are they? I typed team epsilon on google, but that didnt work.

 

[diegosimeone]

Yeah of course, I don't want to disrupt this wonderful mod. I was just wondering why this symbol was not used since it's the preponderant one. It is also the ancient symbol for the gods (12 set ofleaves on the symbol).
The temple doesn't make sense as a symbol. It's like saying a Victorian style house is the symbol of Britain

As for 'team E'. link in Greek
You need to use a translator (i could translate the most important parts in 1-2 days when I have more time).

 

[superskierpat]

Yeah of course, I don't want to disrupt this wonderful mod. I was just wondering why this symbol was not used since it's the preponderant one. It is also the ancient symbol for the gods (12 set ofleaves on the symbol).
The temple doesn't make sense as a symbol. It's like saying a Victorian style house is the symbol of Britain

As for 'team E'. link in Greek
You need to use a translator (i could translate the most important parts in 1-2 days when I have more time).

What I meant is that its not too bad And those suggestions are great anyways if they can help Anax do a nicer flag.

 

[Kapitalisti]

While Anax is free to do a revamped hellenic icon if he wants to, I'm not sure I want to have to go through the trouble of maintaining that religious icons file, I tend to like keeping things closer to vanilla and the temple symbol is pretty representative of hellenes I believe.

Yeah, some symbols might be "better" but there's already a symbol for them in vanilla. Besides, converting games with this mod to EUIV sometimes screws up the religions symbols as it is so it's probably not a great idea to add more unnecessarily.

 

[AnaxXiphos]

Yeah of course, I don't want to disrupt this wonderful mod. I was just wondering why this symbol was not used since it's the preponderant one. It is also the ancient symbol for the gods (12 set ofleaves on the symbol).
The temple doesn't make sense as a symbol. It's like saying a Victorian style house is the symbol of Britain .

I agree that the Temple probably doesn't make the most sense, but as a general rule of thumb I avoid remaking vanilla icons. It just seems like too much of a hassle for everyone involved.

As for the flag options, I always appreciate suggestions; they certainly make the research part go that much more smoothly. My own research has mostly been looking at the Pontifex Maximus, since that's the title used for the Hellenic religious head in ACR. Currently I'm still leaning towards using the laurel, but I'm also pondering doing up some concepts with the secespita and/or the patera (dagger and bowl, basically) which apparently functioned as symbols of office at some point. Any suggestions or speculation in that vein would also be welcome.

 

[diegosimeone]

An easy way to do flags is pretty much use the first letter in greek of what you need. Popular in ancient south Peloponnese.
So letters like Λ, Φ, Μ, Ψ, Θ, Π, Ρ, Δ in a random font. In case you need more flags and blacked out of course.

Edit; are you Greek btw? Your nick is Greek for "sword leader" or "sword king" and it's a relatively tough one for the average Greek that's why im asking.

 

[superskierpat]

An easy way to do flags is pretty much use the first letter in greek of what you need. Popular in ancient south Peloponnese.
So letters like Λ, Φ, Μ, Ψ, Θ, Π, Ρ, Δ in a random font. In case you need more flags and blacked out of course.

Hmm, I had plans for hellenic coat of arms, this could be the cool way to go.

 

[AnaxXiphos]

This is about as close as I could get to what you requested. It's simplified a bit, since adding lots of fancy borders and such seems to work against you with flags. I also have a version which replaces the knotwork border with a solid color, which looks slightly worse in the largest CoA frames, but slightly better in the smaller, so it's really a tossup.

Also, for the record... Doing a flag this way is kinda brutal. Took me nearly an hour of positioning and sizing tweaks to get it to fit correctly. Just reinforces how much I hate the way CoAs and Flags are implemented currently.

 

[superskierpat]

Also, for the record... Doing a flag this way is kinda brutal. Took me nearly an hour of positioning and sizing tweaks to get it to fit correctly. Just reinforces how much I hate the way CoAs and Flags are implemented currently.

Sorry for the troubles

Anyways, heres how it looks ingame, if anybody has ideas how to make it better.


I tried using a shade from Korbahs open source flags:


By the way, not sure if you know of these, but they could help you out in some cases:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?714737-Resource-Flag-Template
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?670439-Resource-Icon-Templates

Also, Arko might have some tips on flag/CoA creating, he has quite the experience with them.

 

[theStormWeaver]

Sorry for the troubles

Anyways, heres how it looks ingame, if anybody has ideas how to make it better.
View attachment 96483

I tried using a shade from Korbahs open source flags:
View attachment 96484

By the way, not sure if you know of these, but they could help you out in some cases:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?714737-Resource-Flag-Template
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?670439-Resource-Icon-Templates

Also, Arko might have some tips on flag/CoA creating, he has quite the experience with them.

It's absolutely gorgeous, AnaxXiphos, you are amazing.

 

[AnaxXiphos]

Some more variants:

 

[superskierpat]

Some more variants:]

I'm intrigued how the first one will look ingame. And I'll also try out the second one, I feel the yellow might look better in black.

 

[schwarherz]

just a note: someone pointed out to me in CK2+ that the localization for a female Arch Druid is Arch Druidess. IIRC most Druidic practitioners irl use Druid as a gender neutral title. I notice Dictionary.com has an entry on Druidess, however, so I could be wrong, but the origin date is 200 years after the origin date of the word Druid so it's likely the result of someone insisting that women must be called something else and is likely erroneous.

Just figured I should let you know.

 

[superskierpat]

just a note: someone pointed out to me in CK2+ that the localization for a female Arch Druid is Arch Druidess. IIRC most Druidic practitioners irl use Druid as a gender neutral title. I notice Dictionary.com has an entry on Druidess, however, so I could be wrong, but the origin date is 200 years after the origin date of the word Druid so it's likely the result of someone insisting that women must be called something else and is likely erroneous.

Just figured I should let you know.

It's pretty strange, I might change it back to druid, but I read about Dryad somewhere, and thought that would be cool to have that for a female head of religion, I'll have to put in consort titles though, since I dislike having two people who are married using the same title.
Though at the same time, official druids had disapeared by then, so I guess a new order of druids calls themselves the way they want?

 

[schwarherz]

It's pretty strange, I might change it back to druid, but I read about Dryad somewhere, and thought that would be cool to have that for a female head of religion, I'll have to put in consort titles though, since I dislike having two people who are married using the same title.
Though at the same time, official druids had disapeared by then, so I guess a new order of druids calls themselves the way they want?

Very true. I should tell you though, a Dryad isn't a person. A Dryad is a mythical creature. Nature spirit to be precise.

EDIT: Also, considering the way a lot of Celtic traditions function, it wouldn't be strange for a married couple to be sharing power and thus have the same title as Head of Religion. That might be more a result of the Celtic Reconstructionism though.

EDIT again: Also, Dryads are Greek http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryad

 

[schwarherz]

If I'm thinking correctly, you're referring to a modern neopagan revival form of the Hellenic faith. Given the sheer degree of whole cloth fabrication, revisionism, as well as general practice inconsistent with traditional practice, it would be best to avoid connection with that when at all possible.

I know quite a few people that would be rather offended by that statement. Reconstructionism attempts to rebuild the faith as close to what it once was as possible. There are just some things that can't be brought back due to loss of lore due to persecution. For all we know, they could have it spot on.

 

[superskierpat]

Very true. I should tell you though, a Dryad isn't a person. A Dryad is a mythical creature. Nature spirit to be precise.

EDIT: Also, considering the way a lot of Celtic traditions function, it wouldn't be strange for a married couple to be sharing power and thus have the same title as Head of Religion. That might be more a result of the Celtic Reconstructionism though.

EDIT again: Also, Dryads are Greek http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryad

Hey I know what a dryad is I'm just quoting an old 18th-19th century theory.

Though I'm pretty sure its wrong. Right now I have Myrdynn as head of religion and thats pretty cool, but I'm still looking for something for a woman head priest, you're right that dryad a little bad. As I said before, Arch druid could be good if I make the consort title different.

 

[schwarherz]

Hey I know what a dryad is I'm just quoting an old 18th-19th century theory.

Though I'm pretty sure its wrong. Right now I have Myrdynn as head of religion and thats pretty cool, but I'm still looking for something for a woman head priest, you're right that dryad a little bad. As I said before, Arch druid could be good if I make the consort title different.

I asked my fiancee (she's druidic) and she suggested something with "Keeper" if that helps at all. E.g. "Lore Keeper"

 

[Necal]

I know quite a few people that would be rather offended by that statement. Reconstructionism attempts to rebuild the faith as close to what it once was as possible. There are just some things that can't be brought back due to loss of lore due to persecution. For all we know, they could have it spot on.

I'm sorry, what makes you think I care about people being offended? If they're wrong, they're wrong. While I have seen some people get it ballpark close enough to right for me to assume that I simply haven't researched their individual pantheon enough, the fact of the matter is that many of these organizations worship their gods either in what is essentially a Christianized fashion, and the organizations that don't do that are typically pantheonic. While that is normally a good thing (as it connects the majority of Indo-European gods, as well as a few outside of that sphere), it breaks down because such organizations aren't overseen properly enough to explain how these gods interconnect.

It either ends with them dogmatically worshiping one well defined pantheon in a way that never happened historically, or with them worshiping multiple gods with the exact same role even though they would be typically be syncretically merged. I don't mind people doing either of those, but it stops being the faiths they are trying to represent. It stops being Hellenic or Druidic, and they really shouldn't call it that.

 

[schwarherz]

it stops being the faiths they are trying to represent. It stops being Hellenic or Druidic, and they really shouldn't call it that.

You are extremely incorrect in that respect. I would debate it with you more but I feel like I've hijacked super's thread too much as it is so I'll just leave it at that.

EDIT: Long-and-short of it is this: Protestants, Methodists, Baptists, Orthodox, and Catholics are all varieties of Christians. Their beliefs, traditions, etc all vary but they are still considered under that particular term. On the same note, those that follow the Hellenic, Druidic, etc paths in their own way (or as you would say "wrong") are still Hellenic and Druidic. When it comes to religion there isn't really such a thing as "wrong".