Ancestor veneration

[Karlington]

Oof, i am blind, i was "ctrl + f" the word landed and title . I am sorry for doing such a mistake

that means mercenary leaders without land can get venerated right? holy order captains aswell? emperors of landless empires aswell? just that my mayors and bishops cant get venerated.

All good, happens to the best of us. I checked the file and it appears that the requirements for beatification are to be at least count tier, OR a True Christian Knight, OR have sponsored the baptism of a realm. I believe only landed characters can do the last, but they would still be eligible if they become unlanded.

EDIT: See below.

As long as the titles are count+ tier they should be eligible for beatification. I believe that all special titles are at least count+ tier, right? But note that the Piety requirement increases with higher tiers (though it is waived for True Christian Knights and baptism sponsors).

I am pretty certain in one of my games a character was landless at the time of veneration. He didn't have any claims either so I don't know if he ever was landed. I think I did a bug report on him. Let me check.

edit: found it https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...k-an-unlanded-courtier-was-venerated.1159545/

It looks like he was an adventurer who got enough prestige to be venerated.

Ancestor worship works a bit differently from Christian beatification and has no tier requirement, I believe.

 

[jwalche]

I am pretty certain in one of my games a character was landless at the time of veneration. He didn't have any claims either so I don't know if he ever was landed. I think I did a bug report on him. Let me check.

edit: found it https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...k-an-unlanded-courtier-was-venerated.1159545/

It looks like he was an adventurer who got enough prestige to be venerated.

Adventurers and Merc Captains are considered as rulers. Captains duke tier and adventurers I have to check. So they meet Count+ requirement. It seems having an actual land title is not a requirement.

 

[Dragatus]

The exact condition is only_playable = yes, which means characters who are count tier or higher or patricians. They don't have to own land, but they have to be rulers. Presumably the adventurer held a temporary duke tier title that was removed after his death and so doesn't show up.

 

[Karlington]

The exact condition is only_playable = yes, which means characters who are count tier or higher or patricians. They don't have to own land, but they have to be rulers. Presumably the adventurer held a temporary duke tier title that was removed after his death and so doesn't show up.

Hey, good catch on the pre-trigger!

 

[Dragatus]

I specifically looked at ancestor veneration. In the HF_ancestor_worship_events.txt file.

character_event = {
    id = HF.40100
    hide_window = yes
    is_triggered_only = yes
    has_dlc = "Holy Fury"
    only_playable = yes
    min_age = 16

    trigger = {
        death_in_china_trigger = no
        death_no_trace_trigger = no
        prestige = 1000
        is_adult = yes
        has_religion_feature = religion_beatification
        OR = {
            has_religion_feature = religion_temporal_head
            has_religion_feature = religion_theocratic_head
            has_religion_feature = religion_autocephaly
        }
    }

    immediate = {
        save_event_target_as = saint_person

        check_if_ancestor_worship_worthy_effect = yes
    }
}

 

[Karlington]

I specifically looked at ancestor veneration. In the HF_ancestor_worship_events.txt file.

I swear I looked really carefully and it wasn't there... Just shoot me, someone!

 

[Warspock]

No, the religion unique doctrines are missing.
Invaders, Civilized, Harmonious, Dawnbreakers, Totem-Guardians, Sons of Ragnarok, Defenders of Dievas, Eternal Riders, Children of Perun, Survivor of Ukko

​

No, they are not. So for the third time, yes the Wiki has all the variable modifiers.

 

[Karlington]

No, they are not. So for the third time, yes the Wiki has all the variable modifiers.

That's because we just added them. They weren't there a few hours ago. When you made your first statement they were still missing.

 

[Warspock]

That's because we just added them. They weren't there a few hours ago. When you made your first statement they were still missing.

Yes, they were all there when I made my first post, since the religion specific doctrines either use preexisting doctrine modifiers, or have no unique ones.

 

[Karlington]

Yes, they were all there when I made my first post, since the religion specific doctrines either use preexisting doctrine modifiers, or have no unique ones.

Which modifiers the three doctrines that do use them use, and which doctrines use none, was not part of the article at the time.

 

[DPS]

[QUOTE="Warspock, post: 25791617, member: 972079]" Do know that if you're the Temporal head, the chance of veneration is currently bugged and you will be unable to venerate the former ruler.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's a bug. I think it's a deliberate design choice to keep players from venerating every single one of their former rulers.

 

[junassa]

I don't think it's a bug. I think it's a deliberate design choice to keep players from venerating every single one of their former rulers.

1. You can't venerate everyone. The player has no choice on who is selected for veneration, they can only confirm veneration.
2. @Snow Crystal said he "thought" it was a bug. Nothing has happened since so who knows for sure.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ancestor-veneration.1154514/#post-25185187

 

[Dragatus]

Yes, they were all there when I made my first post, since the religion specific doctrines either use preexisting doctrine modifiers, or have no unique ones.

The article listed the modifiers, but it did not mention to which unique doctrines they applied.

 

[Warspock]

Which modifiers the three doctrines that do use them use, and which doctrines use none, was not part of the article at the time.

I posted two days ago that all the doctrines that affect veneration were posted on the wiki, and they were in fact there. So yeah, they were there two days ago, and before that even.

 

[majdavlk]

I posted two days ago that all the doctrines that affect veneration were posted on the wiki, and they were in fact there. So yeah, they were there two days ago, and before that even.

maybe it would help if you did a screenshot of the previous version, put it into an image editor and put a red circle where you think those doctrines were shown. But none of us saw it before they were added yesterday by someone from us.

 

[Karlington]

I posted two days ago that all the doctrines that affect veneration were posted on the wiki, and they were in fact there. So yeah, they were there two days ago, and before that even.

"All doctrine effects on ancestor veneration are in the table."

"Cool! Let me go check... Hey, <religion-specific doctrine X> isn't there!"

"Yes it is. Either it has the same effect as one of the modifiers that are on there, or it has no effect at all."

"Ok, makes sense. So can I read which modifier my doctrine is identical to?"

"No."

"Ok... Well, can I at least find out if my doctrine is one of the ones that don't have any effect at all by reading that Wiki page and table?"

"No."

"Well... Then how do I find out???"

"You have to go into the game files to find out which religion-specific doctrines are identical to one of the modifiers that are on that page, and which ones have no effect."

-----

Real comprehensive table there.

 

[MateuszS]

Combination AV and Children of Perun might be bugged, than. CoP has seafaring feature which in case of veneration checks for raiding traits (pirate, seaking etc. - either seafaring or adventuring feature). Meanwhile these traits require both features to get (this or being germanic pagan or have bloodline) which means that AV-CoP Slavs won't get these traits and will have lower chance to be venerated.

 

[Dragatus]

Children of Perun really gives only half of Sea-Bound (you get river movement, but not ship discount), so I wouldn't call that a bug. It also does not count as Sea-Bound for the purpose of veneration, it only counts as Stability. The bigger issue here is that you regularly actually do need both Sea-Bound and Daring to get the sea raider traits, but you won't have enough doctrine slots to get both and AV. So that particular modifier can only be utilized by Germanic pagans who get Sea-Bound or Daring (instead of taking Sons of Ragnarok) or people with the bloodline. That actually is what I'd call a bug.

 

[MateuszS]

Children of Perun really gives only half of Sea-Bound (you get river movement, but not ship discount), so I wouldn't call that a bug. It also does not count as Sea-Bound for the purpose of veneration, it only counts as Stability. The bigger issue here is that you regularly actually do need both Sea-Bound and Daring to get the sea raider traits, but you won't have enough doctrine slots to get both and AV. So that particular modifier can only be utilized by Germanic pagans who get Sea-Bound or Daring (instead of taking Sons of Ragnarok) or people with the bloodline. That actually is what I'd call a bug.

I didn't say that limited Seabound is a bug, just that you mentioned further (BTW Germanic pagans get these traits by default, reformed or not).
And that bug isn't in doctrine, but in trait requirements.

 

[junassa]

So I made a mod and added modifiers for every doctrine except Defenders:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...rines-except-defenders-accounted-for.1286583/

@Dragatus @Karlington anyone else have ideas for that or any other changes let me know please.