Analysis of ships production

[RehoreX]

Hi guys/girls!

Based on first "World War Wednesday" video i made analysis of ships production. Compared to HOI3 i must say that i am satisfied. This game is going to be awesome!

P.S. Resources do really matter now!

Edit:
- version 2.0 i forgot two categories SH BB and Transport ships, but data are only estimates.

 

[Shade205]

The armchair general in my head who is consistently making battle plans and campaigns and crunching numbers while fanatically checking these forums really appreciates your effort

However as aggravating as it is to hear I would not get to attached to any numbers we see in these world war Wednesday streams while they are awesome at getting a good look and feel of the game all the little specific values and numbers are subject to and most likely will change numerous times before release


Props to you though I'll probably keep referring to your data as a reference during the meticulous planning of my war to choke the UK out as the Third Reich

 

[Denkt]

I think you also should compare production cost between ships as that could be your limitation.

Also Dockyard output is modified by your output efficiency.

 

[jimbob100]

Are those all of the ship classes in the game? I didn't realise there weren't any escort carriers anymore.

 

[Kazansky22]

I don't really care about escort carriers as they can kind of be considered "convoy escorts" but I would like to see Light Carriers. Basically smaller/less armored fleet carriers that can go the same speed and carry a smaller airwing.

 

[GsusNSV]

Are those all of the ship classes in the game? I didn't realise there weren't any escort carriers anymore.

As far as we have seen, yes. I don't know, was there ever a complete Ship Tech-Tree shown?


Edit:

I don't really care about escort carriers as they can kind of be considered "convoy escorts" but I would like to see Light Carriers. Basically smaller/less armored fleet carriers that can go the same speed and carry a smaller airwing.

I know, it is not the same, but what if the 1922 Tech can be considered a "light" carrier.

 

[Kazansky22]

As far as we have seen, yes. I don't know, was there ever a complete Ship Tech-Tree shown?


Edit:

I know, it is not the same, but what if the 1922 Tech can be considered a "light" carrier.

Yea that would work, Or maybe just have the option to take lighter hulls being constructed such as the Cleveland class and have the ability to switch them to light carriers, like the Independence class such as what happened irl. Also like how the Lexington Class was originally planned to be battlecruisers/heavy cruisers* but got switched to being Fleet Carriers during construction.

 

[GsusNSV]

Yea that would work, Or maybe just have the option to take lighter hulls being constructed such as the Cleveland class and have the ability to switch them to light carriers, like the Independence class such as what happened irl. Also like how the Lexington Class was originally planned to be battlecruisers/heavy cruisers* but got switched to being Fleet Carriers during construction.

Having subvariants for cruiser. (Like tanks can have.) A + to that.

 

[Secret Master]

Are those all of the ship classes in the game? I didn't realise there weren't any escort carriers anymore.

There weren't escort carriers in HOI3.

They were CVLs in HOI3, not CVEs. Light carriers, not escort carriers.

 

[Kazansky22]

There weren't escort carriers in HOI3.

They were CVLs in HOI3, not CVEs. Light carriers, not escort carriers.

That is incorrect sir, in TFH they are CVEs, I've only see CVLs available in the Black Ice mod.

 

[Secret Master]

That is incorrect sir, in TFH they are CVEs, I've only see CVLs available in the Black Ice mod.

You are right, of course.

However, the CVEs in the game were functionally CVLs since they had half the aircraft complement of CVs. (1 CAG as opposed to 2).

In real life, CVEs like the USS Long Island had a smaller aircraft component than CVLs like the Independence class, which themselves had a smaller aircraft complement than the Yorktown class.

 

[Kazansky22]

However, the CVEs in the game were functionally CVLs since they had half the aircraft complement of CVs. (1 CAG as opposed to 2).

In real life, CVEs like the USS Long Island had a smaller aircraft component than CVLs like the Independence class, which themselves had a smaller aircraft complement than the Yorktown class.

I think CVEs are functional as CVLs partially, all except that in Hoi3 they are really slow, if I remember correctly they are about the same speed as TPs? So what would happen is if I used CVEs in combat they would drag the average fleet speed down so much they enemy surface fleets could easily come into gun range. But historically CVLs were designed to be as fast as Fleet Carriers.

What I do in Hoi3 is I keep my CVEs in a separate fleet tile behind my Surface Combat Groups and when surface action begins I launch either air superiority or naval strike missions from my CVEs. Its a bit micro intensive but it gets the job done.

 

[Vidkjaer]

I dont Think there is dockyard efficiency? The efficiency bar is not shown for naval production.
But I could be wrong?

 

[Caesar15]

I dont Think there is dockyard efficiency? The efficiency bar is not shown for naval production.
But I could be wrong?

I think dockyard efficiency is automatically set at the highest it can be. But you can research techs to increase efficiency.

 

[Axe99]

Cheers for the tables @RehoreX, very interesting stuff. Build times a dash too quick on 15 dockyards, which I can't help but feel won't do Japan any favours if it's a historical playthrough (as the US will get it's CTFs much quicker than historically), but hopefully it's something that's sorted one way or another down the track.

On the issue of CVs/CVLs/CVEs, in my adventures in naval statistics, I've now gotten through the UK and US CVs/CVLs/CVEs/MACs, and from what I've seen so far:

- For CVs, it's a mix depending on the focus of the building nation. Ranger was an early-ish CV (1934), very lightly armoured but could carry 76 aircraft. The Ark Royal (1938) could only carry 60, but was a mite faster (31 knot instead of 29.25) and a good deal better armoured. The US tended to go for larger air wings, a little faster, less armour and more lightly armed CVs, while the UK tended to go for smaller air wings and more armour and armament, but there were variations in design for both nations. And, by the end of the war, the US was pumping out huge, well armoured and armed CVs that were fast with huge air wings.

- the Independence class CVLs had an air wing of 30, compared with the Casablance CVE's air wing of 27 (and the Commencement Bay (CVE) air wing of 33), but was more heavily armoured than Ranger, and faster as well (31.6 knots, compared with 19 knots for Casablanca).

- On the other hand, UK CVLs tended to have bigger air wings than their CVE contemporaries, of 37 aircraft for the Colossus class compared with 24 or so for the US-built Ameer CVEs.

- To muddy the waters even further, it looks like some of the US CVEs carried 5" dual-purpose guns, while most of their CVLs had 40mm AA as their maximum armament (of which they had a lot more than the CVEs) - so, in theory, a US CVE had, on average, better sea attack (ship-to-ship) than a US CVL!

- The only clear differences between CVEs and CVLs that I've come across (noting I haven't gotten any data on US catapult strengths or lift sizes) were in flight deck size (which limited the aircraft they could operate, but I don't expect this to be in HoI4) and speed.

You could potentially cover off most of these factors using the variant system, although it really needs some kind of designer to do it justice. If they were included, then CVE air wing capacity wouldn't be a lot less than CVL at the base level in 1943 or so (maybe a third less), but the big difference would be in speed and armour.

 

[Big Nev]

I think someone should take a really close look at that construction cost to build fifteen x 14,000 ton Liberty Ships = one 750 ton U-boat.

And I really really think they should extend the build times for the heavier ships.

And include CVLs and CVEs.

 

[EntropyAvatar]

And I really really think they should extend the build times for the heavier ships.

I think limiting naval builds to a single row of shipyards would accomplish this. If you look at the chart, the build times for 5 shipyards seems pretty reasonable. So just say that five shipyards is the most you can dedicate to a single naval production line. You can still build just as many ships, but the time to build each one is longer.

 

[Denkt]

Transport ships have been removed, convoys are used to transport divisions. This can be seen in the convoys help text.

 

[keynes2.0]

Cool chart.

 

[monksimus]

I think limiting naval builds to a single row of shipyards would accomplish this. If you look at the chart, the build times for 5 shipyards seems pretty reasonable. So just say that five shipyards is the most you can dedicate to a single naval production line. You can still build just as many ships, but the time to build each one is longer.

I think this is a solid idea, and one I'm sure will be at least modded in. It also seems like an easy way to model the pace at which the USA was able to build ships later - give them a national focus to increase the limit of dockyards on a single production line. So they may start with 2 production lines of carriers with 5 dockyards each, with each line producing a carrier every 2 years. After NF is triggered, those lines can be combined, so a modern carrier can be built in half the time. Overall production will remain the same, but the lag time from ordering it to completion can be drastically reduced, making it easier to change production and respond to conditions.