An unobtrusive yet compelling Ground Invasion System

[Lothmar]

Perhaps give willbreaker the ability to target any one tile and destroy it with varying effects instead.
ex: Targeting planetary administration throws civilians into chaos (militias less likely to form up, productivity down etc).
Hitting Military academy causes dysfunction in the command structure and hits your armies with a penalty.
Hitting planetary uniques like 'Galactic stock exchange' might cause 'ECONOMIC PANIC!' not only removing its energy bonus across the empire but also imposing a reverse penalty as people panic and do sell offs etc.
Hitting power plants turns them into a random tomb world irradiated ruin that grants a rando bonus to a research type in adjacent tiles and had a really low chance of creating a mutant/irradiated pop where as most of the time they just die from it.
Hitting a mine can trap the pop inside if they dont just die and it starves to death if a special project isn't done and the planet has an unhappiness modifier as they tune in to watch etc.
Hitting mineral silos causes decreased productivity from adjacent tiles because of the looting.
etc etc *chuckle*

 

[Hype Train]

this is the best suggestion i have seen by far. Not a minigame that distracts from the core game, allows for customization, and gives armies some meaning. This is good.

 

[Lady Lacroix]

I disagree, the tiles could be represented as a smaller grid in the armies interface.
-Samurais and the battle of Shiroyama
-WWII Germany and the bombing of Dresde
-The Knights Hospitaller and the 1480 siege of Rhodes by the Ottomans

Armageddon bombardment.
Nuclear holocaust.
Planet-cracking doomsday weapons.
Genetically engineered super-viruses that are dispered from canisters dropped from the fleet.

 

[praftd]

Armageddon bombardment.
Nuclear holocaust.
Planet-cracking doomsday weapons.
Genetically engineered super-viruses that are dispered from canisters dropped from the fleet.

Except not everyone wants to purge the entire planet and turn it into a lifeless husk?

Also, orbital bombardment doesn't garuntee people will surrender. There are numerous instances in scifi where the only way to actually capture the planet is with a ground invasion.

And purely from a strategic standpoint, completely decimating a planet completely eliminates the benefit of taking it.

 

[RedPearlA]

Policies and Landfall
Landing your armies will be the most bloody and costly part of any invasion, AA guns, prepared defences and airsupport will do everything they can to ruin your day. New techs will unlock different strategies to assault a planet something that can be set much like fleet bombardment.

Once Troops hit the ground every pop without an army on it's tile will spawn a small Garrison Army of four Infantry Divisions.

Troopships: By default your armies will be ferried down to the surface one at at time at a rate of 15 days each. They will randomly select one of the border Tiles as the designated beach head and all armies will arrive in that tile. Each subsequent armies will attack in a new direction or move into an unoccupied tile. Should the beachhead be garrisoned by a defending army the 15 days spent travelling to the surface will be spent under AA fire but once you reach the surface your softened army will be immune to flank attacks for fear of friendly fire.

Drop Assault: In addition to the troopship coming down to deploy a beach head three additional armies will arrive after a day randomly across the planet to draw away defenders and grant an opportunity for a safe beachhead.

Will Breaker: Four Armies Drop directly onto the planetary admin building and destroy it, killing the pop there and debuffing enemy morale by 25% planet wide. they will then attack outwards leaving the beachhead behind them, additional armies then arrive as per normal. Surrounded on all sides but especially devastating with psionic support.

I specifically mention that it's not a mingame, it's 100% AI controlled. You get to Design the Armies, Initiate the assault and call for a retreat. Nothing else to distract you from galactic affairs. It's at it's core the same system we have currently but fleshed out to a large degree.

I will take longer to conquer a planet which means you might want to leave ships to protect your transport ships. Which will either make the war take longer or you have split up your fleets to go secure other planets which adds micro management.

 

[Emraldis]

I will take longer to conquer a planet which means you might want to leave ships to protect your transport ships. Which will either make the war take longer or you have split up your fleets to go secure other planets which adds micro management.

So basically how invasions work now? IE no extra micro?

 

[LastLeviathan]

A good idea, maybe the devs could take some points from it if they agree. Rather than some 3D map, perhaps something more like this?

 

[Lady Lacroix]

Except not everyone wants to purge the entire planet and turn it into a lifeless husk?

Also, orbital bombardment doesn't garuntee people will surrender. There are numerous instances in scifi where the only way to actually capture the planet is with a ground invasion.

And purely from a strategic standpoint, completely decimating a planet completely eliminates the benefit of taking it.

No, but the threat of such should be enough to enforce your demands. Case in point: Destroying an empires ships, space ports and blockading their planets should be an automatic 100% warscore.

 

[CastelloNova]

I will take longer to conquer a planet which means you might want to leave ships to protect your transport ships. Which will either make the war take longer or you have split up your fleets to go secure other planets which adds micro management.

An unintentional side effect but not an unwelcome one. Doomstacks are a major problem and any legitment reason for splitting your fleet or discouraging one massive fleet is a good one. Having to actually make a decision with your fleet outside of attacking the enemies slightly smaller doomstack is something this game needs even more then invasion reform.

A good idea, maybe the devs could take some points from it if they agree. Rather than some 3D map, perhaps something more like this?

View attachment 242299

Thats actually a solid mock up, very close to what i envisioned except for the army icons and lack of buildings/pops. I would hope that each phenotype would have 3-4 options of infantry/armoured sprites or even every portrait would have their own infantry and armoured 2d sprite. This would give something to base the paid portion of the DLC/patch around and also open the door to modders to really flesh out flavour.

No, but the threat of such should be enough to enforce your demands. Case in point: Destroying an empires ships, space ports and blockading their planets should be an automatic 100% warscore.

So you want to make doomstacks even more effective and completely cripple the slight hope of a turn around that currently exisits in game. Not to mention how unhappy your pacifist/xenophile/egalitarian pops would become if you actually took that action. You'd spark riots, or even revolts if your not a militarist/xenophobe, across your empire.

 

[LastLeviathan]

An unintentional side effect but not an unwelcome one. Doomstacks are a major problem and any legitment reason for splitting your fleet or discouraging one massive fleet is a good one. Having to actually make a decision with your fleet outside of attacking the enemies slightly smaller doomstack is something this game needs even more then invasion reform.



Thats actually a solid mock up, very close to what i envisioned except for the army icons and lack of buildings/pops. I would hope that each phenotype or even every portrait would have their own infantry and armoured 2d sprite. This would give something to base the paid portion of the DLC/patch around and also open the door to modders to really flesh out flavour.



So you want to make doomstacks even more effective and completely cripple the slight hope of a turn around that currently exisits in game. Not to mention how unhappy your pacifist/xenophile/egalitarian pops would become if you actually took that action. You'd spark riots, or even revolts if your not a militarist/xenophobe, across your empire.

I didn't have time to do a full, sharp version. But I'll put one together later.

 

[RedPearlA]

An unintentional side effect but not an unwelcome one. Doomstacks are a major problem and any legitment reason for splitting your fleet or discouraging one massive fleet is a good one. Having to actually make a decision with your fleet outside of attacking the enemies slightly smaller doomstack is something this game needs even more then invasion reform.

After I defeat the AI doomstack sometimes the AI does silly stuff like sends a couple of corvettes to one of their system.
I am not opposed to this system and/or nerffing doomstacks if the UI is improved.

 

[Meneliki]

When I first started playing this game, I was a bit of an advocate of fleshing out the ground combat system... but the more I play it, the less I feel like it's a good idea and the more I'm coming to like the abstracted nature of it. (not to mention the issues this would bring up in multiplayer). At the end of the day, it's a space game. We're meant to be conquering the galaxy, not nitpicking every ground battle. Don't get me wrong, I certainly see the appeal of deeper ground combat, but recently I'm of the opinion that it would cause more harm than good. Ground battles are basically the Stellaris equivalent of CK2/EU4's siege phases, which are, of course, micro free.

Also, hopefully we don't need to get into the whole 'realism' discussion concerning ground-based strategy.

TL;DR - Sorry but imho I just really don't think a big emphasis on ground combat is good for the game.

 

[CastelloNova]

Ground battles are basically the Stellaris equivalent of CK2/EU4's siege phases, which are, of course, micro free.

Which in this system it'd be micro free as well. All that's done is designing the army, giving an attack order and possibly one for retreat. Its at its core the same as the current system but with more substance.

I didn't have time to do a full, sharp version. But I'll put one together later.

Im looking forward to seeing that!

 

[The Nothing]

Ground battles are basically the Stellaris equivalent of CK2/EU4's siege phases, which are, of course, micro free.

Eeeeeer no they're not. Stellaris ground battles are a mix of CKII siege, and EUIV ground battles. Siege because you need to use your ships to blockade a planet and reduce its fortification, leading to an assault. Conventionnal battles, because the battle is more detailed in Stellaris than a CKII assault on a fortress, with troops having moral and attack values, along with attack and moral attack values... Just like there is moral in EUIV battles and casualties.

However, that system today is clearly too simple. It lack some basic strategy, effect of terrains, different tactics, and different modifiers/doctrines perhaps.

By the way, I really like the OP's proposal. More ground combat is always interesting. You can't solve everything with super powerful weapons. You can always find super powerful countermeasures to these afterall. Or simply such super weapons to exterminate a whole planet does not exist in Stellaris universe. If you want a justification so that ground combat is mandatory you can always find one.

 

[Nikitian]

I like this very much, especially since it fits with the style of space battles - no real-time micro (aside from the preparing when, where and how to engage), but present depth for customization and strategic decisions.

As for why ever bother with actual land battles given the grand scale of the game - well, I'd say that in many a sci-fi book/space opera/etc. there is this one (sometimes several) majestic ground battle where the opposing forces are pitted, and the outcome hangs in balance (be it because of a powerful shield, ongoing simultaneous battle in orbit, the alien cities being deeply burrowed, etc.), and for the glorious experience of this one battle every so often I'd love to see the land warfare more fleshed out (without adding micro or otherwise detracting from the main game, of course). It's just the same as with pitting 'doomstacks' of comparable power against each other - years of research, shipbuilding, diplomatic maneuvering and whatnot finally coming to culmination in an epic fireworks show that you follow with abated breath and fascination in the eye.

 

[flazeo255]

Ideas for armies to go along with this:

Army transports should be able to load into carriers and battleships to so they can be sent out durnring engagment or blockade when needed. Tie the cleanse planet goal to armies where when your army takes over that tile they will begin killing the pop on it, xenophobes/militarist should get a policy to be able to do it similar without the wargoal.

As for another idea for transport ships have to able to board mining and research stations durning war to steal production from enemy, after war over if stations are taken the enemy forced to pay mineral compensation to get them back, would give good reason not to blow them up. Fleets should also get the option to disable to civilian(construction/research) and military ships with civilian ones being easier. If ship gets disabled armies should be able to board and attempt to take over ship and if a admiral/general or scientist is on board said ship they can be ransomed off at the end of war to enemy empire.

Abductions would be another thing armies should be capable of doing when taking over tiles, if a pop on the tile the longer the army there and policy to allow abductions is enabled they abduct them for ransom, sell them to slaver empires or enslave them themselves. As for primitives observatory station should get the option of alien abductions(similar to army ones except without invading).

 

[Avian Overlord]

The problem with Ground Invasions is that you need to have space superiority in order to launch them at all. Which means you need to be winning. Which means that any ground combat mechanic has an uphill battle to be anything other than mopping up. A blockaded planet is conquered for all economic intentions during wartime.

Edit: To put it another way, ground combat can never change the direction of a war, merely accelerate or delay the direction it is already going. Thus, it should have far less emphasis than space warfare.

 

[Hertzila]

After giving it some thought, I like it. I'm not entirely sure if the grid-based warfare is the best idea, mainly because I don't trust the AI to lead it properly, but it would give it some depth without involving micromanagement. Just stealing the HOI4 division designer for the surface armies is an excellent idea. Also, it might make sense if the garrison armies spawn always, whether there is an army protecting the POP or not.

Speaking of micromanagement, that's one area this suggestion shines in. All the potential microing happens in the planning phases. Designing armies, choosing policies and picking invasion strategies happen before the order to invade is given, like it happens with space warfare. When the drop-pods are screaming through the atmosphere, I can let the general take care of it and focus on something else.

My only criticism about the concept is that 4 different policies seems like way too much for such a relatively small part of the game. I'd trim it down to just one, two at most.

 

[CastelloNova]

The problem with Ground Invasions is that you need to have space superiority in order to launch them at all. Which means you need to be winning. Which means that any ground combat mechanic has an uphill battle to be anything other than mopping up. A blockaded planet is conquered for all economic intentions during wartime.

Edit: To put it another way, ground combat can never change the direction of a war, merely accelerate or delay the direction it is already going. Thus, it should have far less emphasis than space warfare.

I actually agree, currently without a navy fighting on the ground is a futile affair and from what I can tell it's the fault of planetary fortification. I think if, and it's a big if, PDX takes somethings from my suggestions that fortifications as it is should be either removed or toned down significantly. Especially with how in this systems it takes time to get your troops onto the planet and only being able to have a single army per tile, being able to take worlds with superior quality or quantity of detachments per army exclusively without orbital support is something that should be viable.

Orbital Bombardment should be used to ruin infrastructure, destroy planetary shields and purge pops.

 

[Avian Overlord]

I actually agree, currently without a navy fighting on the ground is a futile affair and from what I can tell it's the fault of planetary fortification.

If you don't control the space above a planet, you can't land. That what it boils down to.