An Idea: Take Airforces and Submarines off the map

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

DoomBunny

Field Marshal
32 Badges
Dec 17, 2010
3.486
434
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Majesty 2
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lead and Gold
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
It's probably far too soon to be posting suggestions for the game, but I figure I may as well post this idea now rather than risk forgetting it or it being lost amongst the flood that is sure to come later.

I've been thinking for a while about the problems with the way previous HoI games have modelled things like air warfare and convoy raiding by submarines. Previously, these actions have been modelled as symmetrical battles between organised forces, which really isn't the case. Submarines for example, don't operate in massed flotillas, and don't attempt to slug it out with surface vessels in rounds of combat where both sides fire. Rather, they tend to act as solitary predators, firing off some torpedoes at a target before diving and praying. Similarly, aircraft don't normally operate like fleets in the sky. Whilst big missions did occur, smaller missions by as little as a flight or even single aircraft also did.

Because of this, I feel that some form of abstraction is needed for submarines and aircraft, which removes them from the map and allows them to be modelled more realistically. The best solution I've been able to come up with is a 'Strategic Warfare' tab (for want of a better name), similar to the Production, Diplomacy or Technology screens. Here, the player would be able to create air groups and submarine flotillas, assign them commanders and aircraft, and give them missions and bases.

Rather than the current method of building a squadron of airplanes or flotilla of submarines, the player would instead build them as escorts and merchantmen currently are. You would order a 'unit' of them, and at the end would be given X amount of individual planes, which rather than being deployed as a unit on the map would go to a pool waiting for assignment, much like merchants and escorts do now.

Here's an example to try and illustrate the system. I'm playing as the UK and the Jerry rotters are being damned unsportsmanlike and trying to bomb me at tea time. Well, I open up the 'Strategic Warfare' tab and decide to create a new air group. I add 40 advanced fighters and 20 basic fighters to the group, using + and - buttons in the same way one assigns escorts or merchantmen to convoys. Then I pick a commander for the group out a list, and an airbase for the group to operate from. In this case, Air Vice Marshall Keith Park can lead the chaps out of Biggin Hill. Once the base and aircraft are picked, I can pick a mission, in this case air scramble, and a region, in this case South East England. With that done, I simply click 'Ok' and the combat is abstracted, over time a series of messages appear telling me that we've knocked down 12 enemy bombers and 5 fighters for the loss of 3 of our own. The content of these messages would be effected by numbers, technology, commanders, radar, etc...

Extra things to consider:

Parameters for the mission - I.e, fly only at night, attack only unescorted merchants, focus attack on fighters, etc...

Limits on aircraft/submarines per airbase/port - I.e, a level 1 airbase can hold 10 aircraft, a level 2 can hold 30, and so on, to stop players stacking every possible aircraft onto a single airbase

Attacks on non-abstracted units - Could be handled by messages similar to those against abstracted units, with non-abstracted units in the mission zone being effected. For example, if the Bismarck runs through the Channel and I have a group of 40 torpedo aircraft set to naval strike, I could get a message telling me that 8 aircraft were lost and that a 70% strength hit was inflicted on the Bismarck, or something to that effect. A similar thing could occur if instead of 40 torpedo aircraft I had a pair of subs operating in the vicinity.

Thoughts? Any problems people can foresee with the idea? Any suggestions?
 

DoomBunny

Field Marshal
32 Badges
Dec 17, 2010
3.486
434
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Majesty 2
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lead and Gold
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
Sounds good, but before that, all the air combat system need to be improved... The possibility to take out planes, and not only damage them, is one of my prime requests.

See, that would be part of it. As aircraft would be individuals that you could assign as you wished (though built in groups to stop you scrolling past 1,000 B17 orders), you wouldn't have the problem with aircraft being hard to destroy. Every loss would mean that a new plane would need building to replace it.
 

Jadelith

Major
87 Badges
Feb 6, 2003
683
404
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Heir to the Throne
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
I had this idea a while back, when hoi3 was first released and we had a topic for "what do you want to see in hoi4".

I completely agree with this. Air squads and subs simply work too differently to accurately model in a game based on land combat.

Also, I hate how you can more or less completely ignore air squads and still win the game easily. That should not be possible; completely losing control of the skies should hinder your land troops' ability to fight significantly, make them lose morale, etc.

and the only non-tedious way of doing this is taking airforce off the map somehow i think.
 

Zabr_

Private
72 Badges
Nov 9, 2012
16
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I like the Idea. but also have CAS witch can be assigned to specific Armies, Army group or Theater to give air support to sub units. and you ned fighters to gain air superiority over the front. could work.
 

imre

Second Lieutenant
66 Badges
Jul 25, 2009
102
2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Cool idea, especially for subs.

It would be cool for air as well but I imagine it is significantly trickier to pull off - air is a much more diverse force.
 

Taylor

Field Marshal
99 Badges
Feb 17, 2006
2.960
5.215
  • War of the Roses
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Magicka
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
It could work, but how would one go about hunting submarines using destroyers, if they're not on the map?
 

vertinox

Field Marshal
75 Badges
Aug 10, 2002
3.742
271
twitch.tv
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I think the whole sub warfare and strategic bombing should just be abstracted. It was too tedious to do either effectively.
 

Jadelith

Major
87 Badges
Feb 6, 2003
683
404
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Heir to the Throne
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
there are definitely issues that need to be thought out, but I think 1) air superiority 2) strategic bombing and 3) convoy raiding (subs) / sub hunting (destroyers) would be more meaningful if abstracted
 

DoomBunny

Field Marshal
32 Badges
Dec 17, 2010
3.486
434
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Majesty 2
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lead and Gold
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
What about submarines being used in the fleet role?

This was the case with both the Japanese and the Americans.

Well, a chance to relay information on as well as to hit surface fleets that run through the area they're in? Or perhaps a mission whereby you could assign submarines to 'escort' a surface fleet like you currently can assign a surface fleet to convoy escort duty?

It could work, but how would one go about hunting submarines using destroyers, if they're not on the map?

Well, the submarines would be set to work in a certain region, if you set your destroyers to ASW in that region, they would have a chance of sinking a submarine every so often. Kind of the reverse of my sub/aircraft vs surface fleet example.

For example, the Germans have 10 submarines working in the Bay of Biscay. The French send out a fleet of two destroyer flotillas on ASW. The surface fleet cruises about, and every so often a message pops up telling you that a sub has been sunk.

Come on, you can't be serious.

Air combat and submarine combat should be improved and tweaked. Not removed!

This isn't a removal from the game. It's an abstraction to hopefully remove map clutter, reduce micro-management and make aircraft and submarines more realistic.
 

Jalex

Colonel
87 Badges
Sep 6, 2006
830
109
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
I think the idea could probably be done in a more realistic fashion than HoI2/3, but I'm not sure I would consider it more "fun."

Interesting proposal nonetheless!
 

Taylor

Field Marshal
99 Badges
Feb 17, 2006
2.960
5.215
  • War of the Roses
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Magicka
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Heir to the Throne
Hmm, ok, and how would the range of subs and airplanes work? Would they have to be rebased to a nearby airfield/naval base first (reducing their org)? I assume not (because your proposal makes it comparable to convoy/escorts). But in that case, it seems you take away a bit of strategy from the game; e.g. if you take planes from one front to the other, they'll be out of business for a while because they have to regain org; plus it depends on the airbase/naval base how fast planes and subs regain org... for example destroying enemy airbases or naval bases would lose its point.
 

DoomBunny

Field Marshal
32 Badges
Dec 17, 2010
3.486
434
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Majesty 2
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lead and Gold
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
Hmm, ok, and how would the range of subs and airplanes work? Would they have to be rebased to a nearby airfield/naval base first (reducing their org)? I assume not (because your proposal makes it comparable to convoy/escorts). But in that case, it seems you take away a bit of strategy from the game; e.g. if you take planes from one front to the other, they'll be out of business for a while because they have to regain org; plus it depends on the airbase/naval base how fast planes and subs regain org... for example destroying enemy airbases or naval bases would lose its point.

Well, the area you could pick for the mission would depend on the placement of the base and the range of your aircraft/submarines. So for example, you couldn't fly a mission against Baku from New York. A penalty for redeployment would be a bit harder to model. Perhaps a delay between an aircraft/submarine being assigned to a group and an its mission being allowed to begin?

As for striking bases, that should be easy to model. Attacks on bases could potentially destroy aircraft/subs operating out of them, and damage done to the base itself would reduce the number of aircraft/subs that could operate out of there.
 

1alexey

Field Marshal
3 Badges
Dec 15, 2010
6.901
109
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
Having subs and planes on the map is mandatory, how else are you supposed to sink/kill them on their bases?
I really love how much damage and air control you can get by having mixed groups of TAC/Strat and MRs perform runway catering, and obviously port strike is one of the best ways to fight subs.

I just thing that Air units need more stats than just attack and defense, and for combat system to properly model high and low altitude planes and vertical fighting advantage that certain planes have over horizontal one and vice verca.
 

barleyman

Major
65 Badges
May 3, 2003
682
16
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • 500k Club
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
Having subs and planes on the map is mandatory, how else are you supposed to sink/kill them on their bases?

As the man said, quite easily. Air power is projected in area-of-effect manner from their base.. And you can definitely bomb that base. Are all 100 planes going to be on the runway at the same time? Seems pretty damn unlikely. Some are on patrol, some are on CAG intercepting the bombers etc.

I propose airforce is simulated as the OP suggested. Having a board-game counter represent 100 planes is abstraction, having computer model patrols and groups of various strengths going about in the background is simulation.

However to keep everyone happy, the area of effect should generate little planes flying about and shooting each other. This would have no effect whatsoever on simulation of course.