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Grand Historian

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One thing that has bugged me throughout EU4 is the HRE. Not the internal politics (though they can certainly be irritating), but rather that it seems that the only path it can take is centralization and suddenly unite or be abruptly disassembled, rather than becoming increasingly useless like it did historically after 1648. So, to remedy this, I would like to propose something to make the Empire seem more dynamic.

First; I would like to suggest that there should be a penalty for not having enough nations in the HRE. Now, there's already a motive to keep the number high due to Imperial Integrity, but one of the reasons the Empire slowly fell apart was due to the fact that many of the member states inside of it grew in strength (such as Bavaria, Wurttemberg, Hannover, Saxony and, of course, Brandenburg-Prussia) and challenged the Emperor. So, there should be a malus inflicted if there are less than ten member states in the Empire that reduces Imperial Authority for the Emperor, in addition to slight malus' to Legitimacy, Prestige and Dip Rep for all members.

One of the reasons that the member states managed to grow stronger, though, was due to the Thirty Years War and its aftermath. Imperial Authority is already linked to the religious unity of the Empire, so I won't recommend changes to that, but the Treaty of Westphalia was a massive blow to the Emperor, his power, and the Empire's relevancy. To reflect that, I would suggest one of two things to happen in addition to the regular effects if Religious Peace is declared:

A: The Empire loses x amount of the reforms it passed
B: The Empire can no longer pass reforms
C: The effects of all reforms are halved, and the HRE as a nation cannot be formed

Finally, I would like to find a way to work in the HRE with the Revolution feature. While Napoleon is credited with the HRE's destruction, (granted, were it not for him, chances were it would have survived for another century or still be around today in some shape or form) it was still Francis II who abdicated in the aftermath of Austerlitz. After Francis II's abdication, no one picked up the Imperial title, and Francis II proclaimed the Austrian Empire as the HRE's spiritual successor.

To reflect all that, I would like to propose that the Emperor should become immune to suffering a revolution, and instead when it happens, the Emperor should be able to form a coalition against the Revolutionary nation (as Austria was the most persistent enemy of Rev. France on the continent), in the style of the Religious Leagues, and both sides can pull other nations in. If the Revolutionary side wins, the Empire should be disassembled (which gives some imperial nations motive to side with Revs to escape the malus' due to a lack of nations, like they historically did) and the former Emperor country should have their Gov. Rank elevated to Empire. If the coalition wins, the Revolution is crushed, and a Congress of Vienna-like event fires that restores things to the Status Quo (and possibly negate the effects of Religious Peace, but I think it would be late-game enough that it wouldn't make much of a difference).

Due to this, I also feel that the manual method of disassembling the Empire should be removed, but I'm still iffy on whether or not that's a good idea. Regardless, I think this would make the Empire and late game more interesting and Dynamic.
 
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applecar18

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One thing that has bugged me throughout EU4 is the HRE. Not the internal politics (though they can certainly be irritating), but rather that it seems that the only path it can take is centralization and suddenly unite or be abruptly disassembled, rather than becoming increasingly useless like it did historically after 1648.

I have to disagree with you there. In my latest game the HRE still exists but, is entirely useless and stuck on the third reform. After the Protestants won the religious wars (thus preventing Austria from running for emperor), very few people could elect an emperor and very people were candidates for emperor besides some OPM's. This, combined with Austria's PU over Brandenburg and the Burgundian inheritance, caused Austria to blog like crazy through the empire and no one, especially not an OPM HRE, can stop them because they've become the single most powerful nation in Europe.
 

Grand Historian

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I have to disagree with you there. In my latest game the HRE still exists but, is entirely useless and stuck on the third reform. After the Protestants won the religious wars (thus preventing Austria from running for emperor), very few people could elect an emperor and very people were candidates for emperor besides some OPM's. This, combined with Austria's PU over Brandenburg and the Burgundian inheritance, caused Austria to blog like crazy through the empire and no one, especially not an OPM HRE, can stop them because they've become the single most powerful nation in Europe.

I think that would be the exception that proves the rule.
 

Itchel

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woah woah, not being able to form the hre is a bit harsh... There's got to be a way to break free from that, and dont forget about religious peace happening after clicking the 4rth/3rd to last reform
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username | Iaponia Lead Dev
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woah woah, not being able to form the hre is a bit harsh... There's got to be a way to break free from that, and dont forget about religious peace happening after clicking the 4rth/3rd to last reform

First, I suggested it as only one of the possible outcomes, and having the possibility of that effect being undone if the HRE wins the Revolution (proving that it's still relevant and no doubt having to centralize in order to do so). Second, Religious Peace only triggers if you proclaim Eberkaisurm (apologies for typos) before winning religious wars, which would make sense considering that you would have to make large concessions to non-conformist princes, which would decrease central control and the power of the Emperor (of course, I also said after the Treaty of Westphalia, not after Religious Peace, so this point is moot anyways).