An extremely valid flaw in 1.12.

[WhiskyGlen]

I am playing a game as Brittany and decided to convert to Protestant. I got an event where 11 religious zealots rose up in Morbihan. No worries, I thought. I got an army of 18,000 men with a 2 star general so they won't be any problem. Unfortunately, Morbihan did not have a fort and it was my protestant center of reformation. Thus when I let them rise (I could have simply delayed the event and moved my army there before triggering it.. which I should have anyways to get the defensive advantage), they instantly took my province and not only did I take an unrest and major manpower hit, but my Center of Reformation was lost as well. That is friggin ridiculous.

 

[aplsin]

I don't think it's a flaw TBH, you can avoid this by having all your provinces in the zone of control of your forts.

 

[Zak Preston]

Was your fort active when rebels had risen?

 

[WhiskyGlen]

I don't think it's a flaw TBH, you can avoid this by having all your provinces in the zone of control of your forts.

Was your fort active when rebels had risen?

I had no fort there other than my capital's (without zone of control). I deleted the one in Finistere because I needed the ducats. I am in 1518 and running a deficit of half a ducat per month. That's with three active forts which I thought would be more important at my boundaries. Where am I supposed to find the ducats for all these forts? My army is only 18,000 and my navy 12 ships with six of them being barques, three being transports, and three being early carracks. I'd love naval supremacy someday!

I don't really see how you can figure it's not a flaw that the stupid rebels happen to rise on my center of reformation so I lose it. Thanks to that, I will have a religious disaster occur because there is no way I can convert the other provinces in time now. Ridiculous.

 

[fred.erick]

I don't think your ability to react to a rebellion should depend on you 'delaying' the event in the manner described.

There's definitely an issue here if you ask me.

 

[Tacticus101]

Its your own fault. You decided to have all your forts active and on your border and paid the price for it. You should be spreading out your forts to cover all your territory. It is not a flaw, it is your decision to sacrifice an inland fort for other things.

I don't really see how you can figure it's not a flaw that the stupid rebels happen to rise on my center of reformation so I lose it. Thanks to that, I will have a religious disaster occur because there is no way I can convert the other provinces in time now. Ridiculous.

You get the bonus to converting, you should have an easy time converting such a small number of provinces.

 

[aplsin]

I don't think your ability to react to a rebellion should depend on you 'delaying' the event in the manner described.

It depends on having all your provinces in the zone of control of a fort. Delaying is a separate issue that could be solved by making those events instant, like when rebels finally spawn due to too much unrest.

 

[TheGrouch91]

Even if you had your army there they'd still capture the province in an instant. At least thats what happened to me.

 

[fred.erick]

It depends on having all your provinces in the zone of control of a fort. Delaying is a separate issue that could be solved by making those events instant, like when rebels finally spawn due to too much unrest.

Yes, I think they should spawn instantly. What magical power allows your to prevent the rebellion as long as a pop-up is floating in space?
Still, rebels from events can cause a lot of damage now, because they can spawn in a completely unexpected area. Normal rebellions give you a lot of time in advance.
In this case it's Britanny, but not every country can put forts over all of its provinces. Certainly not in expectation of a random event.

 

[WhiskyGlen]

Its your own fault. You decided to have all your forts active and on your border and paid the price for it. You should be spreading out your forts to cover all your territory. It is not a flaw, it is your decision to sacrifice an inland fort for other things.

You are right. Instead of having an army and a navy. I should have nothing except forts.

You get the bonus to converting, you should have an easy time converting such a small number of provinces.

You don't even know how many provinces I have. But since you mentioned it, I will tell you I have 14. The conversion gives you one. With a religious center of unity, you have 50 months to convert six more provinces to hit 50% where the disaster ticker will halt. That's because it ticks up 2% per month, but a religious center of unity takes a percent off (as does getting over 50%). However, with the loss of my religious center of unity, not only did I lose a province, and thus eight months, but I now was left with needing to get to 75% unity with a ticker of +2. Eight months for the province that had the center and 9 months for most of the others. I have five provinces converted and six months on my next one. Nine months for the one after that. That is 15 months at 2% per month which is 30 more. I already have 55% so that will be 85%. I will then need to convert four more provinces to get above 75%. At one point per month, that leaves me 15 months. Not even enough time to convert two of them. And of course, I only have about 150 ducats saved up so no defender of the faith.

 

[WhiskyGlen]

Yes, I think they should spawn instantly. What magical power allows your to prevent the rebellion as long as a pop-up is floating in space?
Still, rebels from events can cause a lot of damage now, because they can spawn in a completely unexpected area. Normal rebellions give you a lot of time in advance.
In this case it's Britanny, but not every country can put forts over all of its provinces. Certainly not in expectation of a random event.

I normally only play as Scandinavian nations and no way you'd be able to afford forts everywhere there. But even with Brittany, it's only slightly easier due to the compact space, but you will never get any money if you do. In fact, I still have never once upgraded a building in any of my provinces since 1.12 (I've rage quit by 1500 usually though). I've noticed the AI doesn't do it too much either except England.

I think random events should pause the game. That way things do spawn instantly. I don't disagree with that. But this was a very harsh penalty for something I had no idea was coming.

Personally, I think rebels should only spawn in fortified provinces (including your capital). But I understand how that would cause issues as many types of rebellions would never occur.

 

[keynes2.0]

Convert back?

 

[zamieo]

I'm 99% certain that this isn't WAD and that it'll be fixed. Otherwise, it could definitely be abused.

 

[WhiskyGlen]

Figured I would add a screenshot to show my situation.

The main thing I would change is moving my Calais fort to Artois, but I don't have near the 200 ducats to do that...

 

[Tacticus101]

You are right. Instead of having an army and a navy. I should have nothing except forts.

You said you have 3 active forts, 3 heavy ships and 18k troops, all on high maintenance. You are also at war (a mistake), so I assume you must be able to use war taxes. Mothball the heavy ships, lower maintenance on your army, mothball the forts, drop an advisor. All would allow you to support an additional few forts.

Looking at your picture, your forts your land is too scattered and your forts are badly placed. You could cover every single province you own with 3 forts, you don't need to sacrifice anything to protect your lands with forts but you have made the mistake of leaving the forts in the provinces you captured and removing the one in your capital, which is what has caused your problems.

So like I said, it is your own fault your forts don't cover the province.

You don't even know how many provinces I have. But since you mentioned it, I will tell you I have 14. The conversion gives you one. With a religious center of unity, you have 50 months to convert six more provinces to hit 50% where the disaster ticker will halt. That's because it ticks up 2% per month, but a religious center of unity takes a percent off (as does getting over 50%). However, with the loss of my religious center of unity, not only did I lose a province, and thus eight months, but I now was left with needing to get to 75% unity with a ticker of +2. Eight months for the province that had the center and 9 months for most of the others. I have five provinces converted and six months on my next one. Nine months for the one after that. That is 15 months at 2% per month which is 30 more. I already have 55% so that will be 85%. I will then need to convert four more provinces to get above 75%. At one point per month, that leaves me 15 months. Not even enough time to convert two of them. And of course, I only have about 150 ducats saved up so no defender of the faith.

So deal with it? It was your choice to convert religions, it is not supposed to be easy. You made a mistake and it makes things slightly more difficult.

Keep converting, crush the religious rebels when they hit, let the disaster kick in and then get enough religious unity for it to end. Get +1 stability from it as well. It will be annoying, but its hardly the end of the world.

Anyway, im not sure why you would ever leave Catholicism as Brittany, you have a national idea that gives +2 papal influence.

 

[WhiskyGlen]

You said you have 3 active forts, 3 heavy ships and 18k troops, all on high maintenance. You are also at war (a mistake), so I assume you must be able to use war taxes. Mothball the heavy ships, lower maintenance on your army, mothball the forts, drop an advisor. All would allow you to support an additional few forts.

I am at war because an ally called me into war and I need my allies since both France and England have rivaled me. I could mothball the heavy ships. That is the one thing I will give you. But even that would only amount to a little bit.

Looking at your picture, your forts your land is too scattered and your forts are badly placed. You could cover every single province you own with 3 forts, you don't need to sacrifice anything to protect your lands with forts but you have made the mistake of leaving the forts in the provinces you captured and removing the one in your capital, which is what has caused your problems.

And where do you expect me to get the 200 ducats to move my forts? I would have to remove all my forts and hope no wars break out for 10 years. I also never removed a fort from my capital. There never was one there to begin with other than the base 1 fort.

So deal with it? It was your choice to convert religions, it is not supposed to be easy. You made a mistake and it makes things slightly more difficult.

I made no mistake. The game has a flaw when you lose your center of reformation to a random event. That has nothing to do with difficulty. It has to do with a gimmicky game mechanic.

Keep converting, crush the religious rebels when they hit, let the disaster kick in and then get enough religious unity for it to end. Get +1 stability from it as well. It will be annoying, but its hardly the end of the world.

I am more annoyed that my religious center won't begin converting provinces in France.

Anyway, im not sure why you would ever leave Catholicism as Brittany, you have a national idea that gives +2 papal influence.

Papal influence is a boring concept. I spent 20 of it trying to become papal controller and it hasn't regenerated much since.

 

[Krajzen]

The most irritating for me were random unpredictable 'lol revolt' events (at positibe stability etc) in the middle of the country where they immediately capture provinces.

 

[sub-woofer]

Yeah, I also get a feeling that such revolts could be tweaked to match the fort mechanics.

For example, you cannot demand an occupied province in a war if you haven't took down any nearby fort. Instant conversion and other rebel-enforced effects should not be (in my opinion) much easier that that.

But maybe it is WAD. Then...well, you can only hope for the best and build more forts

 

[Leo_Boon]

It is obvious that something bad happening when a rebel army takes a province is a holdover from when every province had forts. Now that some provinces take a very small time to be occupied, this probably ought to be tweaked.

 

[Tacticus101]

And where do you expect me to get the 200 ducats to move my forts? I would have to remove all my forts and hope no wars break out for 10 years. I also never removed a fort from my capital. There never was one there to begin with other than the base 1 fort.

Sit at peace for a few years with minimal maintenance and save up money. Or fight a war and take as much money as you can from everyone. Or take loans to build the forts and pay them back later (what I tend to do). There are plenty of ways to get the money for forts.

I made no mistake. The game has a flaw when you lose your center of reformation to a random event. That has nothing to do with difficulty. It has to do with a gimmicky game mechanic.

Centres of reformation have always disappeared when you convert them.
Religious rebels have always converted provinces they siege.
Provinces in a Forts zone of control are protected from the bad effects whilst the fort stands.
You made the mistake of not having forts covering all your provinces and not having any protection in your centre of reformation.

It is something that has always been possible and happened, you had the option to prevent it, you chose not to.

I am more annoyed that my religious center won't begin converting provinces in France.

Then protect it better next time.

Papal influence is a boring concept. I spent 20 of it trying to become papal controller and it hasn't regenerated much since.

You shouldn't have spent it on becoming papal controller then. Take religious ideas, try to get cardinals, improve relations with the papal states and rake in the influence; sit at +3 stability the entire game for free. It is far stronger than any other religion if you can do that.