An Argument for Beta Israel(Semien) Independence in 1444

[Aelia]

I'd like to argue that Beta Israel should be independent at game start, I'll use mainly those sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel#Political_independence_.284th_century_.E2.80.93_1632.29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Semien

and the Hebrew one which goes further into details:

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/תולדות_ביתא_ישראל:_1270–1529#.D7.94.D7.A7.D7.99.D7.A1.D7.A8_.D7.93.D7.95.D7.95.D7.99.D7.AA_.D7.94.D7.A8.D7.90.D7.A9.D7.95.D7.9F_.D7.95.D7.99.D7.95.D7.A8.D7.A9.D7.95

Don't think I need to do much explaining considering the Era is explicity called
"Political independence (4th century – 1632)" but I'll anyways:

In 1444, the Semien Kingdom was practically sovereign. It had a king, it had an army and it was actively fighting a war against the Ethiopian Empire under Yeshaq, sometimes invading foreign territory outside of Lake Tana and the mountains of Semien. The Jews lost an important battle at Weger which resulted in the loss of their main source of income, the fertile farmlands and they were pushed back to the mountains but they didn't stop fighting nor did the Kingdom of Semien cease to exist, that would happen only 200 years later. By 1450 the Jews managed to annex back all the territories they lost to Emperor Yeshaq. Only in 1462 the Ethiopian Empire was able to defeat them and even then he didn't manage to fully incoporate all their lands. Only in 1642 in the reign of Emperor Susenyos the Kingdom was finally annexed and defeated for good.

Also, here a translation of the introduction of the page titled "The Chronoicles of Beta Israel" in Hebrew Wikipedia:
"The years 1270-1529 are known as the "Survival Era". This era begun with the Solomonid dynasty ascension to the throne and the overthrow of the Zagwa Dynasty. The overthrow of the Zagwa was ominous for the people of Beta Israel, but they refrained from intervening. Afterwards, after the strengthening of Ethiopia (The empire), it fought a war of extermination against the Jews. Despite all of that, the Jews managed to keep their independence in the mountains of Semien and around Lake Tana. This era [Of Survival] ended in the invasion of Adal Sultanate to Ethiopia, signifying the start of the "Defeat Era"[1529-1630], in which the Jews were once aside the Muslims and once aside the Christians."

Another relevant part in this page is Eliyahu of Ferrara letter from 1435, it reads like this: Beta Israel is an independent kingdom ruled by ministers and kings. It has an army with which it fights the Axumites [Refering to the non-Jewish Ethiopians] he even writes that the Jews "are making fun of Christianity" and then he goes on to describe the unique language they use which he hasn't heard before.

 

[qweyt]

I have looked into this a bit myself and I agree that it would be nice to have an independent Beta Israel at game start, but there are few questions about it I haven't been able to find an answer to.

Wikipedia says that Beta Israel was annexed by Ethiopia sometime between 1414 and 1429. This makes it sound like the entire kingdom was annexed, but some other sources say that small parts of it managed to stay independent. Even if they did remain independent, did they hold enough territory to justify them owning an entire province in 1444?

Also according to Wikipedia, they managed to get back the lost territories by 1450, which implies that it happened gradually some time before that. 1444 is not that long before 1450, so they might have taken at least some of the lands back by then, but again, I haven't found any sources that would confirm this.

 

[IFWanderer]

Summoning @Trin Tragula, since he is in charge of Map Changes.

 

[Aelia]

The Article seems to imply that after they had been defeated by emperor Yeshaq the kingdom was reduced to the mountains of Semien, which is pretty much the province in EU4... If there was an earlier start date I'd argue they should have more territory north east of lake Tana, Gonder province in game. So I think it would be reasonable to give them a core there especially considering they reincoporated it to the realm 6 years after game start.

 

[Arser]

Hey! I was the one who posted this idea on Reddit. Other evidence was the king was crowned in 1434.
I would like to offer this as how it would play out

• Semien starts off independent, with some provinces surrounding them being their cores
• In 1450, there's an event with two choices - either surrender the cores back to Semien and get an opinion bonus with them, or don't and get seperatists

 

[Aelia]

So.. @Trin Tragula what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Arser]

I would like to know as well! Pumped for an independent Jewish nation at game start!

 

[Trin Tragula]

It is my impression that this kingdom was recently subdued in 1444 and not independent in ways relevant to the game.
There are some things in the OP that seem unlikely (for one thing Yeshaq was not the emperor in 1444 ), more discussion would be welcome.
Would be interesting to hear what @LinusLinothorax would have to say about this (even if I suspect his judgement over vanilla will be as harsh as ever in 1.19 ). Others previously showing an interest in the area such as @AirikrStrife or @JKiller96 are also welcome to give opinions.

 

[JKiller96]

It is my impression that this kingdom was recently subdued in 1444 and not independent in ways relevant to the game.
There are some things in the OP that seem unlikely (for one thing Yeshaq was not the emperor in 1444 ), more discussion would be welcome.
Would be interesting to hear what @LinusLinothorax would have to say about this (even if I suspect his judgement over vanilla will be as harsh as ever in 1.19 ). Others previously showing an interest in the area such as @AirikrStrife or @JKiller96 are also welcome to give opinions.

I'd like to see them as a vassal personally. Gives us a chance to play a Jewish nation and wouldn't be totally unhistorical. But the vassal swarm might be hard on Adal, so have to take that into consideration also.

 

[Milan23]

I'd like to see them as a vassal personally. Gives us a chance to play a Jewish nation and wouldn't be totally unhistorical. But the vassal swarm might be hard on Adal, so have to take that into consideration also.

I'd personally love this, it would totally add a new dynamic to the game. From what I gather Beta Israel wasn't independent but nor was it fully incorporated into Ethiopia so making it a vassal wouldn't be too inaccurate. Also anyone remember France and its vassals? There isn't a clear line between what is a vassal or what is fully incorporated and I feel that if it enhances gameplay it should be done

 

[AirikrStrife]

I can't add any new sources on the matter, just my view on the wikipedia article. Semien, or Beta Israelis over a prolonged period seemed to carry out warfare with the ethiopians. Whether they had enough territorial control or politcal administration (as oppsed to guerillas/local chieftains etc) to reward being an independent country in EUIV is hard to tell.

Some solutions could be

1. Semien independent
2. Semien independent but in war with ethiopia
3. Ethiopia owns Semien but does not have a core
4. Ethiopia owns Semien but has a revolter army occupying the province
5. Ethiopia owns Semien

While any of the middle options 2-4 seems to be the most accurate ones, I don't see much gameplay need for any of them. If it is possible for Semien to survive the initial war in option 2 I prefer that one for as Jkiller said it'd be neat with a jewish state. As I'm a fanatic about flavor I'd also prefer option 2.

What also could be done about Semien and surrounding regions is to change the culture to Agew. From all my readings about Ethiopia and Chusites, Agew people comes across as a distinct group which would merit their own culture in the game.

I'm very happy about the changes to southern ethiopia for the next patch. It looks really good and I know that it's very hard to represent such a diverse and complex region which is so different form europe. In my own modding I abandoned any attempts to bring justice and only added a few cultures (Harari, Afar) and my revamp of the Oromo migration, there the migration not only changes religion and adds revolt risk but also changes culture (to oromo) and adds a tag and increases manpower

 

[AirikrStrife]

I just got my hands on the BETA and the full list of changes. Great job with the game. Especially Oromo migration.

How are you guys thinking about cultures in southern ethiopia by now? Looking into it Sidamo could be split in two groups, Sidamo in the east-northeast, and Kaffa/Welayta in the south west.

Sidamo basically representing people speaking cushitic highlands cultures and Kaffa/Welayta for Omotic speaking groups.

I haven't been able to find out what culture would be dominant in Damot, however it was unlikely Amhara. Exteding Agaw from Semien to Damot might be a more realistic approach.

 

[Aelia]

It is my impression that this kingdom was recently subdued in 1444 and not independent in ways relevant to the game.
There are some things in the OP that seem unlikely (for one thing Yeshaq was not the emperor in 1444 ), more discussion would be welcome.
Would be interesting to hear what @LinusLinothorax would have to say about this (even if I suspect his judgement over vanilla will be as harsh as ever in 1.19 ). Others previously showing an interest in the area such as @AirikrStrife or @JKiller96 are also welcome to give opinions.

Yeah, sorry I've misspoken it was under the reign of Zara Yaqob who got the honorary title 'The Jews Exterminator' after defeating them in battle. Other than that though I don't find any other 'unlikely' things. In fact, I'd argue that Semien was more viable and relevant as an independent nation in 1444 than many others that exist in the same date, after all they did get their land back 6 years after game start...

Anyways for a solution I think @AirkirStrife nailed it. It's defintely more accurate to represent Semien as a subdued vassal kingdom, but any of the options 2-4 he propsed seem more reasonable than the current situation, alternatively as I said we could represent it as a vassal state under the Ethiopian Empire, and considering they had a king it seems like a good way to represent it. I for one would love to have a Jewish entity in 1444, it would be really unique and as mentioned, not unfounded in reality.

 

[AirikrStrife]

I did play ethiopia for about 30 years to try out the set up and tbh Ethiopia is pretty OP. I remember in the days then Ethiopia were pretty hard to play with, large muslim alliances between the horn of africa, the arabian peninsula and the mamluks made even the first steps very hard. Later patch and especially the rights of man had Ethiopia plow across Sudan and the horn with ease. Especially after rights of man and the coptic enhancement. (And that said I'm by no means a great player, in the end I failed the prester John achievment then I ran for it).

Now Ethiopia is very powerful. I started out by using Aksum to increase missionary strenght, then pretty quickly Qasr Ibrim were chistianized and I had decreased coring cost as well. Add up Zara Yakob's starting stats and traits. Ethiopia with it's vassals are ready to steamroll around in east africa vassalizing some off the surrounding christian states and conquering Adal and Dongola with ease. By 1470 I had vassalized Alodia (feeding them dongola), Madhri Bahri and Kaffa (feeding them Ennarea and Welayta). I diploannexed Damot and forced Hadiya to convert to coptic. I made two very easy wars against Adal conquering 7 provinces (and then I'm expanding very slowly) and I conquered Beja and had converted most of my provinces to coptic. I was ahead of time in all technologies thanks to Yakob's stats and Armenia had become independent so I had manpower recover bonus for that.

Already before my first war with adal in the early fifties I had grown so powerful that the closest state I could rival were the mamluks.

What I want to say is that it should be looked into making things a bit more complicated for the ethiopians at start. A starting war with Semien there Semien has pretty strong army. If Ethiopia annexes Semien they'll have the increased coring cost of Semien (there would also be no claim), increased hostility etc would be a small speedbump

 

[Arser]

I think that making them a vassal isn't the best solution, since historically the new king wasn't subdued/didn't listen to the Ethiopian government. I would say that it should just be independent at game start.

Maybe have some rebels in 1450 by event?

 

[Arser]

Well I checked the new update and unfortunately it isn't there... Where does this suggestion stand?

 

[Trin Tragula]

It is still being considered.

 

[FleetingRain]

Historical Rivals modifier would make them an unruly vassal for starters, which could make Ethiopia's life a lot more difficult.

 

[Tehrozer]

One solution would be to make them a vassal owning all their cores or only one which would be semien and then add a lot of modifiers like desire for independence so realations Semien-Ethiopia would be harsh . Another thing would be adding some events of Semien declaring war or even breaking vassal status and becoming independent and geting some random jewish armies and rebels just to show that this region won't accept any outside rule . And of course we need decisions for jews like forming Israel or rebulding the Jerusalem tempel or restoring jewish culture that would be great and we could get a new achievement or two

 

[Dracolithfiend]

This is very ahistorical. I could see it as a releasable nation sure but going against what was makes no sense.