An alternative to Garrisons

[Shadow Master]

What if in HoI 3, they did away completely with the garrison divisions, and instead said that for each conquered province occupied, the conqueror looses X amount of manpower as the 'force' they will exert to control the province?

In other words, no mass building of immobile divisions that clutter up the map, waste your MP & IC's, and hopefully finally get rid of the idea that a conquered province is 'empty'.

Any thoughts?

 

[{LD}Firestorm]

I dislike that idea. Garrisons that can walk, in my opinion, are better then what we got now. Because they lacked the heavy equipment to move doesn't mean they can't...walk...

Sad to have to use trains to move one province

 

[krieger11b]

I dislike that idea. Garrisons that can walk, in my opinion, are better then what we got now. Because they lacked the heavy equipment to move doesn't mean they can't...walk...

Sad to have to use trains to move one province

You know the way they are in HOI2 makes me wonder what exactly those troops represent, I mean they can't retreat, can't move by themselves, cost about the same manpower as a infantry division, and yet have much higher combat values than militia.

 

[unmerged(105989)]

Garrisons should have missions just like aircraft. So you do the normal strat redeploy to a region. Then give them the anti-partisan mission. The unit will move around the region, suppressing as they go.

An alternative would be to create a slider where, the player decides how much IC/MP he will devote to suppression. Minister traits and government choices could have effects on the multipliers here. Basically, you have a blanket, committing x amount will suppress 10% in all provinces. Maybe not the most elegent, but perhaps better than moving all the garrisons around.

 

[tretii_sleva]

I would remove garrison all together and use normal infantry to garrison a province.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

I would remove garrison all together and use normal infantry to garrison a province.

This. I really can't think when specific 'garrison' divisions were used.

Germany used SS Panzer Divisions ...

 

[krieger11b]

I would remove garrison all together and use normal infantry to garrison a province.

Except for the fact they give normal infantry dismal suppression ratings.

 

[unmerged(94130)]

I would remove garrison all together and use normal infantry to garrison a province.

Or a lighter division.
An unit between more man and weapons than a militia division and with less artillery but with better suppresion rattings than a infantry division.

After, if in HoI3 we can build our own division, perhaps we will have a police regiment.

And something about fortress and garnisons...
It would be more realist to build fortress with their own crews.
You willl see a division, its streng would be function of fortress size, and when this province is attacked it's this division which fight. Off course this fortress wouldn't be able to move.

 

[unmerged(112350)]

Normal divisions can 'rest' as garrison divisions. Held behind front line waiting for replacements and so on. I would add war fatigue for divs constantly send into battle - it would require being send behind the front line for some time - there it could be working as garrison unit.
Another thing is how it shoul work. IMO u should be able to set this unit range (or better select provinces for spec units to guard) - the more under controll of only 1 the more partisant. Easy solution.

And yes - light divisions build only for garrison duties are also good as an option.

Fortress divs? I dont know... they could always leave their positions.

Edit: Garrison units should be able to move in the area of their duty if a partisan unit would show up (and not constantly jumping from prov to prov) without cancelling their mission.

 

[Waffen9999]

Rather then blanketing the map with them as you had to do in HOI2, you should only have to put them in one area of a region. Remember in HOI2 it was broken up into little regions and well then big regions. But each of the little ones encompassed like 5 provinces or so. A garrison in there should have an effect on all provinces in its little region, and probably a slight one on the surrounding ones. Not the most ideal I suppose but certainly better then having garrisons every other tile.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

This. I really can't think when specific 'garrison' divisions were used.

Germany used SS Panzer Divisions ...

The Germans also used divisions that could be called Garrison-divisions in Norway, the Low Countries, France and Greece. f.e. the 210th Coastal Defence Division

The Italians also had coastal defence divisions, f.e. on Sicily they had about 6 coastal defence divisions. These divisions had some heavy equipment but rarely could move far or even fast enough to escape from an attack.

 

[unmerged(62241)]

something just occured to me, and I have no idea if it is original, or if it is even a decent idea. what about being able to actually assign various levels of supply/priority to normal Inf. divisions-so that a Inf. division at 1/2 supply would have lower combat stats, but be cheaper to maintain-thereby making it adequate forr for garrisoning or coastal defence, but a poor choice for front line?

 

[unmerged(94130)]

something just occured to me, and I have no idea if it is original, or if it is even a decent idea. what about being able to actually assign various levels of supply/priority to normal Inf. divisions-so that a Inf. division at 1/2 supply would have lower combat stats, but be cheaper to maintain-thereby making it adequate forr for garrisoning or coastal defence, but a poor choice for front line?

It means micro-managment.
The offensive button, it's simple one button one status...

If you have to choose the preparation level of each division, that will be long.
And if units stats can change during a party.

 

[ozidnz]

Paradox should do somrthing with Garrisons.They cannot move but they can make ambitious assaults! (for example in my AAR) and 210th Coastal Defence Division can walk IRL. They should retreat, attack and move but they should have low stats except suppression value.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Paradox should do somrthing with Garrisons.They cannot move but they can make ambitious assaults! (for example in my AAR) and 210th Coastal Defence Division can walk IRL. They should retreat, attack and move but they should have low stats except suppression value.

Yes, but without any heavy equipment. So you are just left with an armed rabble.

These kind of divisions usually desintegrated once they came into contact with enemy-forces, they couldn't withdraw 100s of miles (the size of some HoI2 provinces)and keep their cohesion.

 

[vertinox]

Garrisons are just that... Garrisons. They are manpower without the logistics of an division military unit.

They aren't going to be moving as an effective force simply because they don't have the transports or structure to move as a force.

German Garrisons are usually 2nd class troopers often pooled from from foreign volunteers or troopers that aren't 1st class fighters but are good at keeping order like policemen.

 

[unmerged(94130)]

Garrisons are just that... Garrisons. They are manpower without the logistics of an division military unit.

They aren't going to be moving as an effective force simply because they don't have the transports or structure to move as a force.

German Garrisons are usually 2nd class troopers often pooled from from foreign volunteers or troopers that aren't 1st class fighters but are good at keeping order like policemen.

Garrisons units have logistics...otherwise what would eat soldiers ?

German garrisons divisions which kept the South of France were able to retreat after the landings of Normandy and Provence.

 

[Shadow Master]

I like some of what I am reading here, but the original idea was to achieve partisan suppression without the need for an on the map unit. This is to reduce the problem to a simple abstraction of reducing the conqueror's MP by whatever X value needed, and only for as long as the province is to be occupied. If the province is recaptured, included in a peace offer, made part of a puppet, or annexed, the need for a MP 'garrison' is reduced or removed, with the MP saved being placed back into the pool.

 

[unmerged(42324)]

An alternative would be to create a slider where, the player decides how much IC/MP he will devote to suppression. Minister traits and government choices could have effects on the multipliers here. Basically, you have a blanket, committing x amount will suppress 10% in all provinces. Maybe not the most elegent, but perhaps better than moving all the garrisons around.

Yeah i like this idea, the suppresion slider would be like the colonial slider in In Nomine. But i think it should only have a onetime manpower drain, not a little over time, after that just ic drain for producing supplies for the garisontroops.

 

[CSARebel]

Garrisons are just that... Garrisons. They are manpower without the logistics of an division military unit.

They aren't going to be moving as an effective force simply because they don't have the transports or structure to move as a force.

German Garrisons are usually 2nd class troopers often pooled from from foreign volunteers or troopers that aren't 1st class fighters but are good at keeping order like policemen.

I agree with the above.

I also like the current system very much. For the most part partisans did not liberate large areas from foreign occupation. They raided supply lines. This is reflected in partisans reducing TC. If a player wants to reduce this drain he must commit garrision troops to anti-partisan duty. It is up to the player how much. Just my two cents.