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LlywelynII

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It can never be said enough

G#%@%@@$^@&%#@#!# Saxons!!! :mad:

Oh, and Cadwgan ap Bleddyn shouldn't be ruling in Hereford and Maredudd ap Tewdwr was King of Deheubarth, not Gwynedd,* er, when there weren't g#%@%@@$^@&%#@#!# Saxons treating the thrones like appenages. :mad:
j.

*cf. Drachen's Welsh mod for the actual setup. Might post some links over to Sart's mod, too, to fix up that part of what otherwise looks like a really fun scenario.
 

stnylan

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England did well under him, that is for certain.
 

unmerged(59077)

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Llywelyn said:
G#%@%@@$^@&%#@#!# Saxons!!! :mad:

I wonder what it sounds like in Welsh.
 

MichOrion

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Llywelyn said:
G#%@%@@$^@&%#@#!# Saxons!!! :mad:

Oh, and Cadwgan ap Bleddyn shouldn't be ruling in Hereford and Maredudd ap Tewdwr was King of Deheubarth, not Gwynedd,* er, when there weren't g#%@%@@$^@&%#@#!# Saxons treating the thrones like appenages. :mad:
j.

*cf. Drachen's Welsh mod for the actual setup. Might post some links over to Sart's mod, too, to fix up that part of what otherwise looks like a really fun scenario.

Yeah I noticed some set up problems with Wales as I started to get into some research. I was going to fix it but wanted to get going on the AAR. What's in the mod I beleive is the vanilla setup. Cadwgan got Hereford when Bleddyn died, I don't know what he was doing before then.
 
Last edited:

MichOrion

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Part 4

Godwin Haroldeson’s short reign as King of England was marked by hostilities with Malcolm, King of Scotland and Edgar the Clamant. In February 1080 Godwin funded and sent men north to Mar in Angus in the Scottish highlands to assist the rebel Donald O’Brien. Donald was the former Count of Fife until Malcolm revoked his title and gave it to Edgar. Donald then fled north and gained support of the northern nobles who resented Edgar’s access to the king. Unfortunately Donald’s rebellion was crushed and he was hanged in Inverness. Malcolm learned of the support from the south and took action against Godwin in the form of a Spanish assassin. The assassin attempted to poison Godwin but was foiled by a royal taster. The assassin was tortured and revealed who sent him. In May of 1083 Godwin marched into Scotland to kill defeat take the rich farmland in southern Scotland. Malcolm and his generals fought the Saxons on familiar terrain, staying on the defensive and letting Godwin and his brothers march to Lothian before meeting them. Godwin was not as an able commander as his father, nor where his brothers as good as Edgar, who was now the Duke of Gwynedd. Malcolm defeated the northern Earls in a close battle in Berwick and Edgar the Clamant defeated Godwin’s army at Cumberland a few days later. Godwin foolishly took his army back into Scotland on December 9, 1083 and was easily repulsed. His army would regroup in Berwick. After a month of being cut off from the rest of his army in Northumberland and facing starvation, Godwin bravely attempted to breakout and retreat to York. Malcolm followed him into Northumberland and the armies met each other on January 12, 1084. After a whole day of battle Godwin was defeated and his cold, hungry and exhausted army would be routed. It is said that Edgar himself saw Godwin and his host leaving the field and gave chase. Edgar caught up to Godwin a slew him or more accurately a retainer slew him on January 14, 1084. His body would be returned to Essex where he would be buried in the same church as his father not even five years before him. The Witan would elect Coenred, Earl of Kent as King as Godwin had named no successor.

Coenred was a Norman, spoke French more than English and had many Norman subjects in Kent. His first act after his coronation on January 16, 1084 would be to negotiate peace with Scotland. This was achieved on February 7, 1084 for some land in Northumberland and some gold. Malcolm’s army was just as tired as the Saxons after the chase into Northumberland. Malcolm happily took the tribute and the victory against the English. Scotland would remain on an upward climb while England would be in decline.
Coenred was a talented negotiator and had a natural ability to compromise. He managed to hold the Kingdom together and kept the Earls and Dukes from breaking away from the monarchy. He made Godwin’s son Harold the new Duke of Deheubarth to keep Harold’s line loyal to him. He made his son William Earl of Wessex and his brother Edwin, Count of Hampshire. Coenred kept close ties with Normandy and was granted lands and knighted by Robert, Duke of Normandy. Coenred, Robert and Hoel de Cornouaille entered into an alliance and pledged to support each other if anyone of them where attacked. This was fortunate for Robert and Hoel as France was the most powerful kingdom in Europe at the time.

Because of Coenred’s Norman ties he adopted some Norman customs into his court. His line would from then on be referred to as Godwines and not follow the Saxon tradition of naming sons and daughters after their father. Coenred successfully avoided disaster in the first years of his reign and would begin to turn his attentions to the south instead of north as his predecessors did.

coenred.jpg


Coenred, King of England and Wales

malcolm.jpg


Malcolm, King of Scotland
 

unmerged(59077)

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What's the point of winning Hastings if you turn Norman anyway :D
 

MichOrion

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State of the Kingdom 1086

william.jpg


William Godwine, Earl of Wessex and Coenred's son

aldred.jpg


Aldred of Northumbria, Earl of Northumbria

estmond.jpg


Estmond Edwinson, Earl of Mercia and Harold's nephew through Edith

cadoc.jpg


Cadoc of Cornwall, newly declared as the Duke of Cornwall

harold.jpg


Harold Haroldeson, Duke of Deheubarth. One of Harold's twins with Edith

edgar.jpg


Edgar Haroldeson, Duke of Gwynedd Godwin's brother

gyrth.jpg


Gyrth Godwinson, Earl of East Anglia Harold's brother who fought with him at Hastings
 

MichOrion

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waltheof.jpg


Waltheof Siward, Earl of Northampton

cadwgan.jpg


Cadwgan ap Bleddyn, Duke of Warwick, son of Bleddyn former King of Wales

edwin.jpg


Edwin Leofwineson, Count of Hampshire Coenred's brother

wulfnoth.jpg


Wulfnoth of Kent, Bishop of Bedford

estmond-l.jpg


Estmond Herewardson, Earl of Lincolnshire

wiglaf.jpg


Wiglaf of Kent, Earl of Surrey

isles_1086.jpg


England, 1086
 

MichOrion

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RGB said:
What's the point of winning Hastings if you turn Norman anyway :D

He had a Norman mother, I can't help it!

His son, William is a Saxon though. He'll probably be next in line.

I'm trying to steer England toward France. :D Normandy has been in trouble since William died and I wanted to show the influence that refugees would have had on England.
 

phargle

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A Norman conquest of England by stealth instead of force!

This is a fun story. I tried something similar myself once. My goal was to play a Saxon ruler in William's England and work my way onto the throne, after which I would purge the country of Norman rulers. It was plenty fun, but it gets hard to see what to do after that.

The other hard part is to figure out how a Saxon ruler is all that different from a Norman one. Maybe England would have no interest in France. Maybe England would crusade less (having less interest in, say, Sicily). Maybe England would be plagued by decentralized kings ruling by gavelkind. It seems otherwise you're just a Norman by another name.
 

stnylan

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Well, Edward the Confessor was practically a Norman anyway. Something like this was bound to happen, alas. Heavens, even the Scots got over-run with Normans, and that was even without a Conquest!
 

unmerged(60841)

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I just caught up with this. The Normans do have that infectious kind of currency, invite one and you end up with a host. Granted, they are ruthlessly effective. Good luck with this.
 

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Part 5

Coenred would not have long to introduce his Norman vision to England. After only four years of rule he would mysteriously die on April 26, 1088 at the age of 36. He would be buried at Canterbury near the seat of his court in Kent. The Witan, lead by the Saxon nobility and wary of the increasing Norman influence elected the most powerful Saxon in England, Aldred of Northumbria. Aldred would be crowned on May 24, 1088 at Canterbury Cathedral. He would waste no time seeking revenge for the earlier defeat against Scotland. This time Aldred would mobilize his and the earls’ forces, unlike Godwin who attempted to use just his forces. By this time Malcolm, King of Scotland was dead and his son Duncan was king. This made no difference to Aldred or Edgar the Clamant who also held Duncan under his sway.

aldred.jpg


Aldred, King of England

duncan.jpg


Duncan, King of Scotland

Aldred quickly mobilized his regiments from Northumbria and the southern Earls to invade Berwick. Where Godwin failed, Aldred would succeed. Aldred would take Berwick in September, 1088. William, Duke of Wessex would take Lothian and Fife by January, 1089 while Cadoc, Duke of Cornwall would take Strathclyde the same month. Aldred gained Berwick and Duncan agreed to abandon his claims to Northumbria with the peace treaty signed on March 9, 1089 at York. Aldred had won against Scotland and gained lands to the north. He would not have time to enjoy his victory for long as he would die on September 12, 1089, he would rule less than a year and a half. Coenred’s son Willaim, Duke of Wessex would be crowned on October 25, 1089 at Westminster Abbey. Aldred would be buried at York having never known his full potential.

William would begin his reign at the age of 19. Regardless of his age he was already an accomplished statesman having been Earl of Wessex for 5 years. William gave Northumbria to the church under the authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury. The pope attempted to exert his influence and appoint a bishop for Northumbria. William and the church in England would not recognize the pope’s appointment and the Italian bishop sent to England would be sent away. In response to this embarrassment the pope would bring the Inquisition to the new court at Wessex to investigate William’s court. The men from Rome where not well received by William and where forcefully expelled from England. The papal party first attempted to stay in Normandy but there too they were not allowed to stay. Coenred’s old friend Robert, Duke of Normandy would not allow it. The Inquisitors would end up in Ireland and watch England with great scrutiny. Charges where soon drawn up against Elfweard Godwineson, another brilliant Saxon general and William’s marshal, the charge would be witchcraft. Willaim would ignore this charge as would the most of the Witan. The pope would excommunicate William and Elfweard; Europe now had an excuse to invade England, just as William of Normandy had.

william.jpg


Willaim, King of England

Just as William would celebrate the death of his family’s old enemy, Edgar the Clamant who was wounded at Berwick a few years earlier Estmond, Earl of Lincoln would revolt seeking to remove the heretic Willaim. With the support of Rome and Scottish mercenaries the men from Lincolnshire would march toward London to take the throne by open revolt. While most of the nobles supported William, England was in danger of political collapse.

estmond.jpg


Estmond, Earl of Lincoln

isles_1091.jpg


England, 1091
 
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unmerged(60841)

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A quick succession of Kings there. Atheling always lives forever in my games, I'm not at all sure why.
 

MichOrion

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He probably would have in mine too, he always does. William usually makes it to 80 in my games too.
 

stnylan

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Ahh, the Normans appear to be uncomfortable on a Saxon throne :)
 

Woody Man

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phargle said:
A Norman conquest of England by stealth instead of force!

This is a fun story. I tried something similar myself once. My goal was to play a Saxon ruler in William's England and work my way onto the throne, after which I would purge the country of Norman rulers. It was plenty fun, but it gets hard to see what to do after that.

The other hard part is to figure out how a Saxon ruler is all that different from a Norman one. Maybe England would have no interest in France. Maybe England would crusade less (having less interest in, say, Sicily). Maybe England would be plagued by decentralized kings ruling by gavelkind. It seems otherwise you're just a Norman by another name.

I did the same thing once, the difference between a norman and a saxon England in my game was that my Saxon England fought over parts of Saxony, and Scandinavia, and when converted to EUII and Victoria England became a land based power in Europe and never created the world spanning empire across the World and instead became a sort of Hapsburg Empire until we were overtaken by new countries like Germany and Japan in the late 1800's.

Long story short, a good game.
 

MichOrion

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Part 6

The problems between Rome and the Saxons would ignite into civil war during the last years of William’s reign. William was already at war with his former vassal Estmond, the Earl of Lincoln when Pope Alexander II sent a letter demanding that England submit to the authority of Rome and to send and army to Jerusalem to assist the crusaders there. William refused the Pope’s demands and suggested that religious authority in England could be shared between the two churches. Alexander II responded by excommunicating William and giving his blessing to any English noble to take the English throne by force in the name of Rome. Several Earls quickly declared independence and mustered armies in order to claim the throne. Among the Earls competing for the crown were; Gyrth Godwineson, Earl of East Anglia (who fought with Harold at Hastings); Edgar, Duke of Gwynedd; the Bishopric of Bedford; the Archbishopric of Northumbria; Wiglaf, Earl of Surrey; and Sverker, Earl of Leicester. All of these powerful men declared war with the intention of taking the crown by force. The Pope appalled at the loss of 5,000 men at the Battle of Suffolk on February 3, 1093 at which Gyrth was defeated and removed as Earl of East Anglia (he later fled to Sweden to the court of his son-in-law) attempted to call an end to the war. While William welcomed it and was ready to submit to the papal authority, the revolting Earls would ignore the Pope’s decree. The Earls would not have a chance to continue the war against William. William would die from wounds received near York fighting against the Archbishop of Northumbria on February 8, 1094. The Witan would elect Harold Haroldeson (Harold II), Harold Godwineson’s son as king before William’s death. Harold II and the English church would immediately recognize the Pope as the spiritual authority in England. This act did much to re-unite England. Harold was the brother of the powerful Edgar, Duke of Gwynedd. Edgar would convince the remaining rebelling Earls to make peace with Harold and pledge loyalty to him. Harold would make many concessions to the Earls and lose many of his lands to the nobles. This was done at Westminster Abbey with all the Earls, King Harold and Pope Alexander present. Every Earl knelt before Harold and submitted to him after Harold was crowned by Alexander II (the first King of England to be crowned by a pope). After a brief period of civil war England was united again.

harold.jpg


Harold II, King of England and Wales

anselm.jpg


Pope Alexander II

tree_1094.jpg


Harold's family tree, 1094

kings.jpg


Kings of England after Harold Godwineson
 

unmerged(60841)

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The two brothers brought some stability back, I wonder how long it can last. The succession is so uncertain.
 

stnylan

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Yes, some heirs are an immediate necessity.