Americans take Europe 2 : CommentAARies Thread

[arcorelli]

Some commentaries from Paris:

It seems to us that the titles 'Western alliance' and 'Eastern alliance' are misleading. Poland had switched back and forth, Spain (not a member of any of such alliances) had participated in several of the west-vs-east wars. When Spain took Romagna it was a victory of the eastern alliance? Poland didn't get anything after all and the victor was a country outside the west-vs-east conflict.

There had only one quasi-permanent alliance in the game -Sweden and Russia. And given their situation, is clear why Sweden had not moved out. They only could move if they were not under threat

 

[the_genius]

Austria is really disappointed of the outcome of the war for one part, and is more disappointed of the attitude of the King of England, now that the Republic is finished, we feel that this is a momentary change that hopefully will be solved soon. Diplomats will be sent to London to try to restore the Honorable Holy Alliance with our good friends of England.

 

[MarkDey]

The Ottoman Empire: 1655 - 1675

1655 - 1675
​

The latter half of the 17th century began with the largest war yet recorded in history. Within months of the initial declaration, the nations of England, Austria, and Brandenburg fought against the nations of Sweden, Russia, and France. At the end of the conflict, England was forced to agree to a trading embargo from France (as French troops had secured the European lowlands), and Sweden was forced to cede the province of Holstein to Brandenburg. The loss of life on all sides is estimated to be over 1 million men, with countless others maimed or rendered destitute.

The Sultan watched this war with wary eyes, but the advice of the Köprülüs family was finally determined to be the best course of action, and the Ottoman Empire did not join the fray. However, troops were raised and some cities fortified in case the conflict spread even further. At the same time, a large effort was made to bring the training and equipment of turkish troops to be the equal of those in other large nations.

During this great war, many leaders spurred their troops to further heights by invoking their religion. Even some leaders of nations helped their cause by declaring themselves the supreme defender of their faith, much like the late Shâh Jehân. Shortly after the end of the great war, the Holy Roman Emperor and Archduke of Austria, Leopold I, met the Sovereign of the House of Osman and Commander of the Faithful, Khalifah Mehmed IV, outside the city of Zagreb. It is unclear who first asked to meet, but it is suspected, due to his relatively high spirits before and after the visit, that Leopold I wished to end his claim as supreme defender of his faith. Presumably this was to curb the encroachment of an invasive clergy. In the end, a personal duel was arranged, and Khalifah Mehmed IV disarmed Leopold I after a feint to his right leg. As the Austrian priests in the Archduke's entourage expressed their surprise and indignation at their leader being held at swordpoint, one-hundred turkish cavalry arrived along either side of the group. Shortly thereafter, the Austrian delegation was escorted back to their side of the border.

Meanwhile, in the persian lands, a great mosque was constructed in Isfahan. This served as an inspiration to the surrounding areas as tens of thousands of people realized the flaws in the shiite teachings and returned to the true path of Islam. Some ambitious men incited armed revolts, not only in the persian lands but also in the old lands of the Gujurat kingdom, but these were swiftly dealt with.

Also, the lack of control in the bazaars that had been seen in earlier years was rapidly eliminated. New trade agreements were signed with Russia, and later, Sweden. In addition, the Köprülüs reforms which promoted free trade improved the standing of the Ottoman Empire's merchants across all creation, and indirectly encouraged the foundation of Hailm near the nation of Bengal. If Allah is willing, the great prosperity of these years will continue for one-hundred more.

There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet.

Scribe for Khalifah Mehmed IV
Sovereign of the House of Osman
Sultan of Sultans
Commander of the Faithful
Successor of the Prophet of the Lord of the Universe
​

OOC: I'll take the -5 BB reduction.

 

[MarkDey]

AtE2: Trade Arrangements

​

For all large nations that do not have a formal non-competition agreement with the Ottoman Empire and yet desire to trade in my bazaars, know that the following is the official policy of the Ottoman Empire.

This policy has been slightly altered from the one that most nations have agreed to; the alterations only reduce the cost of lifting a probation or an embargo.

• If one merchant from the Ottoman Empire is competed away by a merchant from your country, then your merchants will be put on probation.
• This probabtion will last for three months. To lift the probation, a formal letter of regret (OOC: Letter of Introduction) must be received by the Sultan. Advance notice must be given to the Ottoman Empire before the letter is sent.
• If the probation period ends before a formal letter of regret is received, then your merchants will lose their privelege to trade in all bazaars throughout the Ottoman Empire.
• A personal gift is required to end an embargo. Once merchants from the Ottoman Empire have secured monopolies in all domestic bazaars, then the embargo will be lifted.
• If two merchants from the Ottoman Empire are competed away by merchants from your country within the same month, regardless of location, or if your merchants obtain a monopoly in a bazaar within the Ottoman Empire, then an embargo will be immediately imposed without a probationary period.

There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet.

Khalifah Mehmed IV
Sovereign of the House of Osman
Sultan of Sultans
Commander of the Faithful
Successor of the Prophet of the Lord of the Universe
​

 

[K'shar]

Austria is really disappointed of the outcome of the war for one part, and is more disappointed of the attitude of the King of England, now that the Republic is finished, we feel that this is a momentary change that hopefully will be solved soon. Diplomats will be sent to London to try to restore the Honorable Holy Alliance with our good friends of England.

Likewise is Brandenburg shocked by this revisionist thinking on behalf of England ... mayhaps it is due to a temporary bout of madness. This conflict had the greater part of the gain for England (a COT) one province for BBurg and nothing for Austria while we undoubtadly weathered the brunt of the war in the fight against Russia. The involvement of France came as a surprise but once initiated could not be avoided, nor could the Central Powers do anything to tip the French involvement. The Central powers fought with their blood and their hearts fighting a English proposed war and we showed great symapth and frustration at the eventual outcome.

In addition, when the conflict was concluded Brandenburg (on advice from the Austrian Archduke) desisted from requesting Hannover (as the friendly offer for aide) due to the lack of English gain in this war, obviously this was an overly kind decision. Considering the current English position and the insult thrown at German Diplomats by the English sovereign late yesterday, we feel we can only trust our Austrian brothers right now, until England can shed it's current 'victimizing' position.

Our relations with France remain cordial of course.

 

[arcorelli]

France. 1555-1575 Of Sun Kings, wealth and some wars

Things were as usual in France: nice and good. French trade expanded (outside some problems with the Ottoman Empire, promplty solved), our busy and fine workmen built manufactories, the people of Siena was convinced that the reformed religion is the way to salvation (maybe the close example of the Pope was decisive in that). We colonized some lands, including the island of Socotra to be used as naval base. Korea definitely could not annoy our trade again, since they were conquered.

But, unfortunately, things were as usual in Europe: dark and problematic. All of a sudden, Paris received the news that England (and soon enough their large alliance, including the new nation of Brandenburg and the Austrian House of Habsburg) had declared war on, of all nations, Sweden. Russia went to help their attacked ally. Our information was that England had decided to ask -again- for Copenhaguen. And France decided, after careful consideration, that we prefer Copenhaguen to be Swedish.

So we joined Sweden and Russia in their fight. Since we didn't have problems with Austria or even Brandenburg (since their demand of Holstein was, well reasonable), we decided to strike north. To the Netherlands. Not a single shot was fired in our eastern frontier (although Luxembourg was commanding the southern army just in case).

War opened fairly. Large number of french troops invaded Brabant and Flanders, defeated the small field armies deployed there. A small invasion of Caux was defeated by Luxembourg (unfortunately he fell in battle, even if victorious). Our fleet -even if their first battle was not bad- was cornered in Calais. Only after several battles, and losing several ships, could the french fleet move outside the Channel and move to the Atlantic (to be reinforced). But since the strategic effect of making England deploy the large part of their fleet in the Channel was achieved, not more was asked of our saiors.

After Brabant and Flanders fell, next step was Zeeland. A large battle was joined there, but wave after wave of french reinforcements at last could dislodge english defenders. Our further attack north of the river was defeated so french troops retreated. Then a large siege of Zeeland under Conde (with almost 200 guns) was undertaken. The field army under Turenne rested in Brabant waiting for Zeeland to fell and several other reinforcement armies were created and fielded in North France. In the course of those operations, an english expeditionary force was almost anhililated in Paris. After a long siege, the siege train of Conde finally took Zeeland.

The problem was, how to cross north of the rivers? 110k english soldiers (70k in Holland and 40k in Gelre) were waiting, under Prince Rupert. Not easy task even for large french armies. So it was decided to strike both provinces, Conde against Holland (and Rupert) and Turenne to Geldre. England decided to battle Conde and after a long army, in when all the french infantry was killed, maimed or taken prisoner, Conde was forced to retreat. But the english had suffered also large casualties. And Turenne had invaded successfully Geldre (and assaulted there). England decided to counterattack Conde, and they defeated him in Zeeland -even after new wave of reinforcements arrived. But, with only 35k remaining of the large english army, and with Turenne with 75k, Conde with other 70k and other army from Brabant all converging in Zeeland, England decided to abandon the field. The rest of the war only saw the sieges of Holland and Friesland.

French armies, aided by our large manpower, good leadership and the fact that even our defeats aided our war effort, were successful. England dropped the claim of Copenhaguen and France was ready to a general peace. But the rest of the alliance was not in a mood to peace yet, so after some further years of unoprofitable war, France decided to peace the English alliance after word was received that Copenhaguen could not be asked. Soon after France peaced, Brandenburg received Holstein.

Since England had decided to embargo french traders from their COTs (a thing was France did not in the war) it was decided to close our COTs after the war and English COTs could be opened to french traders (actually, since you can't embargo when at truce, England gave his word of not trading in our COTs).

After the war, french armies helped England to fight their rebels in the Netherland, so Turenne and Conde were again fighting and sieging in that part of Europe, although now invited by the owner.

And after the war, things went again as usual in France: nice and good. Only russian traders -that got a very nasty habit of always taking us out- were annoying us. But well, is part of free trade we thought.

And our illustrious lord, Louis XIV, decided that one thing it was been callled the Sun King and other to build a new palace. So he said -in famous words- 'what a useless piece of ...' and all were happy in France.

(OOC. Ducats for the frenchies. We are going to build another manu we had decided)

 

[Casluerj]

Likewise is Brandenburg shocked by this revisionist thinking on behalf of England ... mayhaps it is due to a temporary bout of madness. This conflict had the greater part of the gain for England (a COT) one province for BBurg and nothing for Austria while we undoubtadly weathered the brunt of the war in the fight against Russia. The involvement of France came as a surprise but once initiated could not be avoided, nor could the Central Powers do anything to tip the French involvement. The Central powers fought with their blood and their hearts fighting a English proposed war and we showed great symapth and frustration at the eventual outcome.

In addition, when the conflict was concluded Brandenburg (on advice from the Austrian Archduke) desisted from requesting Hannover (as the friendly offer for aide) due to the lack of English gain in this war, obviously this was an overly kind decision. Considering the current English position and the insult thrown at German Diplomats by the English sovereign late yesterday, we feel we can only trust our Austrian brothers right now, until England can shed it's current 'victimizing' position.

Our relations with France remain cordial of course.

England never insulted the German diplomat. Its just common known that the English regency, while the King wasnt able to be directly involved in the conflict, wasnt authorized to do a war and even this way they went.

Of course the regent was already executed.

About the dissolution of the Western alliance, it was decided after a long consideration, that for now its better to hold down a bit it. The principal reason wasnt lastest years but 2 main reasons:

- A formal member of the alliance attacked another formal member, to defend a member of the Eastern alliance;

- When a formal member of the alliance was fighting against the totality of the Eastern alliance, that member remained alone and any single offer of help was received.

Of course, if BBurg and Austria send diplomats to London to discuss new deals and pontencial alliance they would received an excellent reception and will be treated like friends in London. So its up to you.

About peace terms with France:

England government wont respect a single word that was decided, wrongly using its name, by the regent. Only the King, Charles has that authority and power.

 

[arcorelli]

About peace terms with France:

England government wont respect a single word that was decided, wrongly using its name, by the regent. Only the King, Charles has that authority and power.

The regent as its name made clear is entitled to sign any treaty when the king is not present, that is the nature of the name. The Kingdom of England agreed to those terms in the person what did have the power to do that. If England will not agree to the terms discussed, agreed and signed by all rulers participating in the last war, then no peace treaty can be considered valid.

And anyway, France was considering opening COTs, since the deal was simply a response to our traders being embargoed. And we will consider opening COTs again (or in other words, not to impose an embargo) if England accepts the fundamental fact that regents are rulers.

And regarding english allegations. France do not acknowledge such terms as 'Western' or 'Eastern' alliances, and those terms are not part of our diplomatic outlook. France was not part of such alliance, our deal with England did not include offensive actions.

And to be precise: We can't be supposed to follow offensive actions that had not being discussed with us or even announced to us, operations that we never were even consulted. Our first knowledge of such plans of english attack was in both cases an English DOW. Kings do not need, obviously, to communicate their plans to third parties, but -conversely- they can't expect that they are followed in their plans for third parties. It is a matter of public record that France wanted an end to the anglo-swedish conflict (and Austria joined us in such claim). It should not be a surprise if we didn't like an attack on Sweden.

 

[arcorelli]

Some official statements from Paris

Our most glorious, wise and powerful lord, Louis XIV king of France have the pleasure to communicate to all other princes and kings of Europe the following official french policy:

1. That we pledge our forces to defend Copenhaguen from attack. Any attack against Sweden that includes such a claim will be fought against by France.
2. That whenever England acknowledges the validity of the recently signed treaty, english traders will be gladly received in French COTs.
3. That lands recently colonized in America by France are to be ceded to Spain at the first available moment.

 

[arcorelli]

Who is the Richest

And now, the latest from the busy clerks of the French Statistic Office:

                       Total Income (adj)
France                       6802
Russia                       5825
Ottoman Empire               5813
Spain                        4785
England                      4575
Sweden                       3178
Austria                      2655
Brandenburg                  1328

Remember, this is adjusted for inflation and it counts manufactories.

England really suffered. We guess this is going to be temporary since english trade should go up next session, but King Charles is entitled to be more than a little angry with the situation (although they should rebuild manufactories actually).

The Tzar and the Sultan had a magnificent session and it can be counted as the big winners. Their trade soared in the past session.

France continue to grow (not by big amounts, but steadily), and so we ended as richest. The 17 manufactories (together with Russia the most industrialized countries) are a big help too. France and Russia receive as much income from manufactories as the whole income of Brandenburg (well, a little exageration, but not from much actually)

 

[K'shar]

German organizational efficiency is ensuring that soon Brandenburg will be a big hitter ... once we get over 200 yrs of polish mismanagement and tech lag o .

 

[Casluerj]

England wants to trade in French COTs. A good deal might be achieved... It depends on the goodwill of the French King.

 

[arcorelli]

England wants to trade in French COTs. A good deal might be achieved... It depends on the goodwill of the French King.

If the English king agrees that the signed treaty is valid, then english traders will be inmediately accepted in french COTs. Since such agreement do not have any practical consequence (the only part that regards England is precisely about the embargo), we hope that England will accept that.

 

[Casluerj]

If the English king agrees that the signed treaty is valid, then english traders will be inmediately accepted in french COTs. Since such agreement do not have any practical consequence (the only part that regards England is precisely about the embargo), we hope that England will accept that.

We'd sign an agreement, or treaty if we know what was signed. What were the terms. TO the best of my knowlegde, the only thing that was commited was exactly what the French King is let be forgotten.

Present us the formal treaty, with its clauses, and we'll try to sign it.

 

[arcorelli]

We'd sign an agreement, or treaty if we know what was signed. What were the terms. TO the best of my knowlegde, the only thing that was commited was exactly what the French King is let be forgotten.

Present us the formal treaty, with its clauses, and we'll try to sign it.

The formal treaty that ended the war was the following:
1. Holstein to be ceded to Brandenburg.
2. No english traders in French COTs.

As far as I know, those were the terms agreed. And that is all IIRC (if there is other clause I forgot someone can correct me)

If England agrees that the treaty is valid, then english traders are wellcomed in French COTs.

 

[the_genius]

Of course, if BBurg and Austria send diplomats to London to discuss new deals and pontencial alliance they would received an excellent reception and will be treated like friends in London. So its up to you.

It's regretable that Austria now *has* to beg for a friendship in Buckingham Palace. We will order our envoys to present the documents that our Archduke and Emperor has been preparing for England but now we believe that the possibilities of rebuilding this ancient alliance are somewhat reduced. A total shame, now the Evil Eastern Alliance have a paved way to continue it's efforts of dividing and conquering the rest of Europe.

 

[Casluerj]

A total shame, now the Evil Eastern Alliance have a paved way to continue it's efforts of dividing and conquering the rest of Europe.

You can send great thx for the Kingdom of France, about that.

It's regretable that Austria now *has* to beg for a friendship in Buckingham Palace. We will order our envoys to present the documents that our Archduke and Emperor has been preparing for England but now we believe that the possibilities of rebuilding this ancient alliance are somewhat reduced.

We do hope that this can be solved out, but we are really disappointed, not with you or anyone, but with the situation and the facts that happened since the creation of the Western alliance.

The formal treaty that ended the war was the following:

1. Holstein to be ceded to Brandenburg.
2. No english traders in French COTs.

Well, England will sign it if the King of France let the point 2 fall.

 

[the_genius]

As far as I know, those were the terms agreed. And that is all IIRC (if there is other clause I forgot someone can correct me)

I can confirm those were the clauses signed by French and English diplomats. At least those were the public ones.

 

[unmerged(16285)]

I really regret for not have been able to participate to this fight vut i had really other priorities, like rebuilding my economy after 3 wars in a row with her and then anyway i wasnt prepered to fight France, he ahd still 70k in Southern France and i hadnot any troops but them defending Italy

 

[arcorelli]

You can send great thx for the Kingdom of France, about that..

People do forget it seems that Brandenburg -part of the western nations last time we checked according to that view of things- won a province after all.

According to us in last war:
Brandenburg won, they got their claimed province.
England lost, they didn't get their claimed province.
Austria no idea, it depends what they were fighting for.
Sweden lost, they lost a province (the defeat was not a serious one, since they remained with the other claimed province)
France won, since Sweden didn't lost Copenhaguen.
Russia no idea, it depends what they were fighting for.

If that is a victory or defeat for Western or Eastern alliances, we will leave to people that see the world in such terms.

Well, England will sign it if the King of France let the point 2 fall.

As we said, there is no longer a point 2 once England agrees that the treaty is valid. Since we understand that England acknowledges the validity of treaty, english traders are -from now on- free to visit french COTs.