American Tech in 1936

[peenerz]

I propose a little change for the State of the US technology in the 1936 start.

In 1936 the M1 Garand was still in development, it wasn’t issued to the army until July of 1937. The m1903 Springfield was still standard issue. However the M2 light tank was already being produced

I propose that the United States does not start with the M1 researched, and has its divisions equipped with the m1903 Springfield. It’ll also have the 1936 tank researched but no armored divisions

 

[Agiknight]

On the subject of American tech... why do they not begin with Motorized researched? Seems silly to me. Marines as well. USA desperately needs an overhaul, it was always kind of awkward but now just feels pathetic in comparison to the recently updated countries.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

If you think the US tree is bad you should try Italy.

The US should still start with the M1 researched imo, just not at all deployed or in production.

 

[Lumpy]

Well, the OP has a point, but the rifle techs are inconsistent anyway. For the Soviets, the '36 tech represents the SVT-40 (utter nonsense), while for the Germans, it represents the 98k rifle, if I remember correctly. So for some countries, the '36 tech represents standard carbine rifles, while for others, it represents fairly modern semi-automatic rifles (the SVT-40 was first introduced in '39). Overall, the research is quite lackluster in some cases.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

I want the DH tech tree back and expanded on tbh

 

[Arch-Heretek]

Lol that the Sherman, T34, and Pz.IV. are equivalent here. Despite all being designed at different times, and for different purposes.

 

[CrazyZombie]

Lol that the Sherman, T34, and Pz.IV. are equivalent here. Despite all being designed at different times, and for different purposes.

Well, technically early models were relatively close. Germans were more focused on fire support of infantry, Americans and Soviets - on balance between fire support and AT capabilities.

What I extremely don't like in the tree - it is made for Germans, so, there are no pre-1934 tanks (except WW1-ones), and medium tanks appear only in 1938-1939. Germans had no normal heavy tanks before 1941-1942, so, noone will have such.

 

[Arch-Heretek]

Well the British had their infantry tanks and the French had their light-but-not-really tanks that could be heavy. The tree is odd in that it jumps over what one would assume to be crucial developments in tanks too, like the numerous leichte panzers, the Czech panzers, Soviet experiments, etc.

 

[CrazyZombie]

Well the British had their infantry tanks and the French had their light-but-not-really tanks that could be heavy. The tree is odd in that it jumps over what one would assume to be crucial developments in tanks too, like the numerous leichte panzers, the Czech panzers, Soviet experiments, etc.

One of reasons, I extremely want to try creating own mod. Just because a lot of HOI4 nuances feel like they are "half-done".

 

[Zwirbaum]

Weapon techs are just flavor names. Don't put to much into their names. It's not like you would equip soldiers with only M1 Garands or Thompson SMG's.

 

[peenerz]

Speaking of the tech tree, now that I think of it instead of a smg as the 1939 (or is it 1940?) tech there should be another tier of rifle. Smg should be its own branch.

I think it would add a lot more flavor if it was possible to manage the firearm composition of each battalion, some soviet units in ww2 had more smgs for urban combat for example.

Rifles provide more organization, smgs more breakthrough, etc.

 

[Lumpy]

Speaking of the tech tree, now that I think of it instead of a smg as the 1939 (or is it 1940?) tech there should be another tier of rifle. Smg should be its own branch.

I think it would add a lot more flavor if it was possible to manage the firearm composition of each battalion, some soviet units in ww2 had more smgs for urban combat for example.

Rifles provide more organization, smgs more breakthrough, etc.

There is a mod that replaces the images of the infantry weapon techs with 'equipment sets'. So the '39 weapons tech includes MPs, upgraded rifles, uniforms, and so on. You are researching abstracted weapon kits, not individual weapons, after all. Still, the weapons that represent said kits in vanilla are still off in most cases.

 

[BulgarianFocusTree]

On the subject of American tech... why do they not begin with Motorized researched? Seems silly to me. Marines as well. USA desperately needs an overhaul, it was always kind of awkward but now just feels pathetic in comparison to the recently updated countries.

Motorized seems like one of those techs that every country should start with.

Then again, there are some countries that start without WW1 tanks or Support Equipment. I mean, I get it, Manchukuo shouldn't start out with tanks. Makes sense, even though you'd think that knowledge would osmose/be stolen from the Japanese.

Starting without support equipment, even for a minor, is as silly as America not having figured out that the truck is a really useful military tool by 1936.

 

[billcorr]

On the subject of American tech... why do they not begin with Motorized researched? Seems silly to me.

silly as America not having figured out that the truck is a really useful military tool by 1936.

Just curious, when did the USA field motorized units?

That might be a reason why the developers did not award the USA with motorized technology at the start of the game.

What would some other reasons be for not having America start the 1936 scenario with motorized technology already researched?

 

[ithillid]

What would some other reasons be for not having America start the 1936 scenario with motorized technology already researched?

Because Motorized is one of the most valuable techs in the game. Motorized does not depreciate in value as the game continues, unlike rifles, airplanes, and especially tanks. While it is superseded late game by mechanized, mechanized does fill a different role.
So, if I am starting in 1936 as America, the two things that I want to produce the most of are support equipment and mechanized. I am going to have very limited factories for the next three to four years, so I need to produce and stockpile the stuff that will remain useful across that timeframe.

 

[Zwirbaum]

Just curious, when did the USA field motorized units?

That might be a reason why the developers did not award the USA with motorized technology at the start of the game.

What would some other reasons be for not having America start the 1936 scenario with motorized technology already researched?

IIRC there was pretty stiff resistance inside US Army, mainly Cavalry Branch of it. It was even mentioned pretty recently on the forums.

 

[DmUa]

What I extremely don't like in the tree - it is made for Germans, so, there are no pre-1934 tanks (except WW1-ones), and medium tanks appear only in 1938-1939.

- well, not really... In the game introduction of Pz4 (1941) makes Pz3(1939) obsolete... Which is as far from reality as it could be.

 

[Lumpy]

- well, not really... In the game introduction of Pz4 (1941) makes Pz3(1939) obsolete... Which is as far from reality as it could be.

This. When invading Russia, the PzIII was the mainstay of the German panzer forces. But unfortunately, reality is not compatible with the wet dreams of wehraboos, who apparently make up a fair share of this game's target audience.

 

[tommylotto]

Just curious, when did the USA field motorized units?

That might be a reason why the developers did not award the USA with motorized technology at the start of the game.

What would some other reasons be for not having America start the 1936 scenario with motorized technology already researched?

Maybe they should start with MECH...

 

[Uniform764]

IIRC there was pretty stiff resistance inside US Army, mainly Cavalry Branch of it. It was even mentioned pretty recently on the forums.

While motorised divisions themselves might not have been formed in 1936, motorised is also an essential requirement for several support companies. The US definitely had trucks in military use since WW1 . For comparison the UK starts with motorised researched, but no motorised infantry template, you have to use a national focus to unlock it or use land XP to create a template. The US could have a similar arrangement.