American Independance?

[skeptic]

just out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen the US declare independece while plave the GC? ive played it a zillion times now with every major nation and ive never seen the US ever declare independece. i feel that if certain requirements are met, all English provinces in eastern north America should start revolting around a certain time(just like the netherlands). i saw england go through a bad civil war but it was the Royalists who emerged not the US. anyway i was just curious.

 

[unmerged(5115)]

Maybe with the IGC...

 

[Agelastus]

The GC required something like fourteen or sixteen specific provinces to be rebel controlled for there to be a chance for the USA to form. The IGC reduces this to two and allows the rebellion to occur from 1700, rather than the 1750 in the original game.

I've never seen it, and I've only heard of it occurring in the IGC once!

 

[skeptic]

thanks agelastus. damn with the GC its pretty much impossible for the rebellion to happen. sigh, im still a loser without the IGC and ive had this game since it came out. c'mon everybody ridicule me for being the loser that i am. ok...you guys done? thank you, ill get it when i get home from work today.

 

[Agelastus]

We're far to civilised on these forums to ridicule people!

Welcome, by the way-if you've had the game since it came out in America, and you're still playing it, where have you been? These forums are for the true afficionados, as you seem to be.

 

[unmerged(5190)]

adjustment

when george III becomes king then the chance should grow enormously
(1760) should be the same chance that holland has in 1565 (or thereabouts) i cant remember if it was charles or philip who pushed them over the edge

 

[skeptic]

haha ive been too busy playing this awesome game to go to the forums. haha actually my old belief was with single-player games(which this is to me) i dont usually go to forums. but after coming here to patch the game from time to time i started stopping byc and taking a look at the forum content and decided today to begin posting. another reason why i didnt do it earlier was that i got caught up in other game forums(WWIIOL<shudder> most recently...waaay too many idiots) but since they've fallen in interest ive decided to change my philosophy on forum attendence. so here i am. i extend a great big hello to all my fellow EUers.

 

[PatMaster]

The only reason that they put in the Dutch rebellions in the first place wa that the game would be too unbalanced without it.
No matter how much you americans want a fixed US-revolt it wont happend.

 

[BiB]

Re: adjustment

Originally posted by senex
when george III becomes king then the chance should grow enormously
(1760) should be the same chance that holland has in 1565 (or thereabouts) i cant remember if it was charles or philip who pushed them over the edge

U don't know much about the Dutch revolt, do u ?

 

[skeptic]

"No matter how much you americans want a fixed US-revolt it wont happend."

actually it has nothing to do with american pride(hence the swedish shield under my name ). its just that it was an actual event, just like the dutch rebellion. however, making the american revolution a standard event was just a toss up idea, i just wanted to know if it was POSSIBLE that if england was going through turmoil the US might spring up.

 

[dralizaar]

big difference in dutch vs amercian reveloution...the Dutch had a sense of nationlistic pride for a long period of time <im not sure how this started didnt research very far back...were they a nation /duchy conquered by spain or what?> but their sense of identity was stronger as a whole...so when they declared independance they formed a republic and defied Spain to do its wirst...and Spain tried..for over a 100 years they tried and failed.. the Americas however lacked that total cohesion...even when states voted to join the Congress they did so by barely 2/3rds margins...and not all states joined right away..it took time to recruit them...there were many amercians on both sides of the war..some wore red some blue...the likelihood of such a revelution taking place and succeeding again is very remote..thats why its so hard in the game...Enlgand shouldnt have lost... 3 or 4 fluke battles turned the course of the rebellion....like america in vietnam..england won most of the battles but lost the war...because polotics..and that part of the game cant be simulated well .....the things that pushed amercia over the edge can not be properly represented by this game's mechanics unfortunately ...unless one could vary taxes from province to province and make revolts tied to tax levels in that province to cover the high taxes colonies paid vs homeland england....

i really am not sure the actual thing that pushed the Dutch over...but from what littel i know it wasnt a new feeling..it was more like a long slow boil that finally overflowed...would this describe it best?

 

[skeptic]

nice analysis dralizaar. very good point.

 

[Agelastus]

Originally posted by dralizaar
...unless one could vary taxes from province to province and make revolts tied to tax levels in that province to cover the high taxes colonies paid vs homeland england....

Nice analysis indeed-but taxes in the colonies were a fraction what they were in England-even after the increases/new taxes that so incensed the Colonists that they revolted.

The real problem with having the American Revolution in the game is how rarely the game replicates the historical situation in the area (effectively never), particularly when England is an AI nation.

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Differences and similarities between the two uprisings are in fact moot. The Dutch uprising was included only because the Dutch played such a huge role in the colonising of the RotW (which this game is about) that it would look silly if they weren't there. Hardcoding a revolution isn't a great solution, but neither is creating a Free Holland in 1492, and ignoring the problem is even worse. So, we get a hardcoded revolution.

The USA, on the other hand, had zero world influence in the 16 years between its formation and the end of the game, so it really doesn't matter if they turn up or not.

 

[unmerged(4143)]

Originally posted by Heyesey
The USA, on the other hand, had zero world influence in the 16 years between its formation and the end of the game, so it really doesn't matter if they turn up or not.

Very true, the United States would have very little influence on the end of EU, but what about EU2? True the US didn't play any role in European politics in the years covered by EU2, but it did have an effect on colonial powers in North America.

 

[unmerged(4972)]

It is true that the US didn't have much effect on the world in the short period it is in the game, however, the rebellions, the loss of income and the need to fight a foreign war would effect England greatly. Since it is near the end of the game the distraction to England could could keep her from grabbing some quick VP to inflate her score.
As for the reason for America's success in the war is completely explained in the movie The Patriot--we had Mel Gibson on our side

 

[unmerged(4143)]

As for the reason for America's success in the war is completely explained in the movie The Patriot--we had Mel Gibson on our side

Amen!

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Originally posted by rsfuhrer


Very true, the United States would have very little influence on the end of EU, but what about EU2?

I've mentioned many times on the EU2 board that expanding the game to 1820 means there should be a rising tendency towards independence movements in colonial lands (not merely in the USA colonies; they just happened to be the ones to go first.) Which european countries this will affect, and how badly, will, it seems, largely depend on how you operate your domestic and colonial policy - which looks like it's a lot more involved and detailed than in EU, which is a good thing.

 

[unmerged(5360)]

American "War for Independence"

Up to this time I had no idea that the colonies would revolt in the game and form into the United States. Is it that rare to occur? I disagree in that event having little to no direct impact upon the rest of the world in EU at its end. Upon achieving independence an aggressive USA can offset the entire balance of power in the Americas by posing a threat to the other European colonies (withstanding a sufficient amount of resources and manpower, ofcourse.) But most of all, as it did historically it can have a lethal political and moral effect on other nations, ie. France. Perhaps an updated version of the CG or EUII can incorporate the post effect of the American Revolution- the social and cultural revolution that continues to this day forever epitomizing the United States as a unique entity opposed to the Old World and its often antiquated ideals. Imagine the American Revolution laying the foundations for not only the French Revolution but for several others too... thus creating a domino effect that could be a major problem for nations at games end, especially for the one's with low stability and or large empires who had been successful up to that point. This would make it interesting I believe and give a less fortunate player a chance to support such a cause, making it worth their while too against a poweful England or the other great powers. On the other hand, England would be hard pressed to defeat the USA lest the ideals of the Revolution spread. The possibilities are endless...

 

[skeptic]

yes in 1792 the US had yet to show a definate mark on world politics, but whether it was evident or not the american revolution had a direct, strong influence on the french revolution(and that had a GREAT impact on euorean politics). if the american revolution never occured i believe the french revolution would have been very different(it probably would have still happened but it may have lacked direction and been put down by the government). i dont believe they should make the american revolution a coded uprising in EU II like the netherlands in EU I, but i feel it should be much easier to set the british provinces in N. America off in EU II. i also wonder what will happen if france never annexes corsica? napolean was from corsica. if france never conquers it or vassalizes it then napolean will never have any influence on france. i really hope they incorporate little things like this into EU II to make history that much changable. woo i cant wait .