Originally posted by Gen. Wolfe
yeah it's not as bad as Portugal being annexed by Byzantium in 1443
LOL, good point
.-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
LOL, good point
.
EEP Portugal
Actually while testing dynamics in West Africa, I've happened to glance over at Brazil and saw Portugal with a colony or two by 1440. One of the problems is, that I see Portugal attempting to make colonies in Africa, but because of the attacking natives, their colonies/tps fail and they move on to Brazil.
garbon
Actually while testing dynamics in West Africa, I've happened to glance over at Brazil and saw Portugal with a colony or two by 1440. One of the problems is, that I see Portugal attempting to make colonies in Africa, but because of the attacking natives, their colonies/tps fail and they move on to Brazil.
garbon
If it happens from time to time, this would be ok and just a twist in the course of history. But I havn't seen a game where they didnt'd settle in America around the midst of the 15th century, neglecting Asia thereby. Very often, by 1500 Portugal owns today's Brazil completely. These are not only trade posts, but some colonies and even cities. This should definitely be changed, as it has been done for the chinese with the last patch (at least, that's what I assume, since I've not seen chinese settlers in the Americas since then).
The other thing is that the Portuguese find China in 1450 or so which can also lead to weird results.
The EEP has severely shortened lifespans for the early Portuguese leaders (pre 1492). The AI will still send them on a one way trip to China, but they won't get as far or uncover as much.
The EEP has severely shortened lifespans for the early Portuguese leaders (pre 1492). The AI will still send them on a one way trip to China, but they won't get as far or uncover as much.
I grew used to that to the point where I think its perfectly normal. Portugal's advantage is an early colonial boost, and that makes it a desirable country to pillage or trade maps with around 1445-1465. Portugal is a very fun country to play, as a pure colonial nation that is.
When I play that country, I always explore substantial parts of central america and the west coast of Africa completely with my two early explorers. Then during the period without any, I take out west african nations, usually by tricking Marroco on annexing my one province vassal Fez that I always make at the start of the game, and then conquering all their provinces and vassalizing their capital, I get maps of Songhai, which I then warn and wait. The whole thing can be done by 1430 and allow for inital colonial space During the mid-century, sometimes I get involved as well with an american conflict or two. Another good trick is to discover the nation near florida with the first explorer and buy their maps, thus getting knowledge of large parts of the east coast... Free trade, naval and narrowminded together produce barely enough colonists for a long time after that! Aztec gold might be needed to pay for all that colonization.
A trick with attrition is to establish 100 people colonies early on in the discoveries to be able to rest from attrition often, and to explore with 2 or 3 cheap ships only.
Its only when I get my 3rd explorer that i make him sail from my bases in south africa towards india, the spice islands, china, and australia. I frequently buy chinese maps to save me alot of exploration in asia as well, by then buying the maps of their neighbors who have access to all india.
By late century, of course, Its time for the iberian war. Conquest of all the areas in Iberia with ports as well as Aragonese islands, to ensure that soon-to-form Spain cannot steal my area of influence with the ToT After that, the next century is all about colonization and taking out minor nations across the globe, as well as alot of conversion. THEN, I can focus on European conquest, which takes about 50 years with now unlimited ressources.
So anyway, my point was... if you intend to fix anormalies with portuguese exploration, you have alot of work to do!
When I play that country, I always explore substantial parts of central america and the west coast of Africa completely with my two early explorers. Then during the period without any, I take out west african nations, usually by tricking Marroco on annexing my one province vassal Fez that I always make at the start of the game, and then conquering all their provinces and vassalizing their capital, I get maps of Songhai, which I then warn and wait. The whole thing can be done by 1430 and allow for inital colonial space
During the mid-century, sometimes I get involved as well with an american conflict or two. Another good trick is to discover the nation near florida with the first explorer and buy their maps, thus getting knowledge of large parts of the east coast... Free trade, naval and narrowminded together produce barely enough colonists for a long time after that! Aztec gold might be needed to pay for all that colonization.A trick with attrition is to establish 100 people colonies early on in the discoveries to be able to rest from attrition often, and to explore with 2 or 3 cheap ships only.
Its only when I get my 3rd explorer that i make him sail from my bases in south africa towards india, the spice islands, china, and australia. I frequently buy chinese maps to save me alot of exploration in asia as well, by then buying the maps of their neighbors who have access to all india.
By late century, of course, Its time for the iberian war. Conquest of all the areas in Iberia with ports as well as Aragonese islands, to ensure that soon-to-form Spain cannot steal my area of influence with the ToT
After that, the next century is all about colonization and taking out minor nations across the globe, as well as alot of conversion. THEN, I can focus on European conquest, which takes about 50 years with now unlimited ressources. So anyway, my point was... if you intend to fix anormalies with portuguese exploration, you have alot of work to do!
Well, in my current GC, Denmark must have gotten an early explorer, because in the 1460s they have a trading post in Newfoundland (or maybe they re-claimed Viking settlements... ).
Which puts me at awe - I thought there were no random explorers before 1500?
).Which puts me at awe - I thought there were no random explorers before 1500?
Uhm, Norway, which is regularly annexed by Danmark early, START with maps of newfoundland friend, in 1419, legacy of the vikings, plus colines in greenland and iceland.
Now that you mention it, Norway is pretty handy for western european nations who want to trade maps with portugal around 1450 to colonize africa but have nothing to trade with the portugeuse. You can buy Austrian or Hungarian maps easily, and then use them to buy maps of Norway. From there, you can trade with the portugeuse and get if you are lucky a colony in newfoundland in the process, future base for the exploration of Canada.
Believe it or not, but they are really tough to take out in 1430 if you're Portugal. You have no manpower base at all, no conquistadors, a long way to sail to get there, probably worse morale. Yes I know a bunch of cavalry will do the trick, but while you're fighting your explorer may well be without a base in the area.
OK I'd probably attack them anyway, but there are good reasons. Plus if you can ally with them romping on their neighbours is trivial.
OK I'd probably attack them anyway, but there are good reasons. Plus if you can ally with them romping on their neighbours is trivial.
What Isaac said. Portugal is a BROKE nation early, and you need ALL you got to take out Songhai, which is the battle that makes or break your empire. Songhai gold is what turn me in the green for real and fund my colonization. By the time I take it, I usually make enough tax income to prevent their gold from causing inflation, if barely, but they are key. Its only some 30 years later, once my empire can take the influx of inca gold that I attack them and finally have the wealth needed to stop caring about gold.
Attacking Creeks early would be crazy. My forces in the area usually amount to something not unlike 1671 footmen, 546 cavalry, 7 trading posts, 3 ill-colonized colonies, one port with 1255 people, 2 galleys and one transport.
Attacking Creeks early would be crazy. My forces in the area usually amount to something not unlike 1671 footmen, 546 cavalry, 7 trading posts, 3 ill-colonized colonies, one port with 1255 people, 2 galleys and one transport.
Hahahaha!
1443
Portugal has colonies in South America
Portugal in annexed by Byzantium
Granada annexes Spain
China annexed by Cambodia
Delhi annexed by Taungu
Well, the Portuguese had all of their expeditions going around Africa to try and find a route to India. So, I guess it can still be possible for them to colonize the America's. Those ships just would've had to sail west.
1443
Portugal has colonies in South America
Portugal in annexed by Byzantium
Granada annexes Spain
China annexed by Cambodia
Delhi annexed by Taungu
Well, the Portuguese had all of their expeditions going around Africa to try and find a route to India. So, I guess it can still be possible for them to colonize the America's. Those ships just would've had to sail west.
Yep. But not every time. Also, didn´t they think the Earth was flat or something back then? I wouldn´t have sailed west if that was the case. I could fall over the edge.
Hehehe unless you modify their AI (which they may share with spain? hmm...) Portugal will always go get some sights of the coast of brazil, then go back to african coast and move all the way to China, discovering provinces randomly along the way. By 1445-1450, they reach China and exploration stops there abrutely. Unlike players, they dont go off and on along the shores to ressuply, so discovering the provinces along the way is not guaranteed.
It might be doable to modify their AI so that the new world discovery is kept as a spanish thing, unless of course theres a player who decides otherwise.
It might be doable to modify their AI so that the new world discovery is kept as a spanish thing, unless of course theres a player who decides otherwise.
Hmm, afaik, the ocean currents in real life didn`t really allow it for the early explorers - just as the turn around south africa wasn`t possible before the technology improved. So iirc the Portuguese which followed the current from west africa to the west, almost reached brazil in real life but then the current brought them back to more or less capo verde just before they were able to reach brazil.
The problem is that we do want Portugal to go into South America; we just want this to happen a bit later than it does.
Note that the current goods prices make South America much more lucrative than the East Indies and India. Sugar provinces are as good as spice, and are easier and cheaper to colonize. The AI is actually playing smart by going into Brazil.
Note that the current goods prices make South America much more lucrative than the East Indies and India. Sugar provinces are as good as spice, and are easier and cheaper to colonize. The AI is actually playing smart by going into Brazil.