Ambition edicts - should they reflect which tradition trees we chose?

[Tannhäuser Cake]

The Ambition Edicts are ultimately unlocked by completing 7 tradition trees. These edicts were originally created at a time when there were just 7 tradition trees, but since then we have gained the ability to choose from a greater number of alternative tradition trees. It could make some sense if our choices of traditions influenced what ambitions we get.

These are the current eight Ambition Edicts:

• A Grand Fleet: +20% Naval Capacity, -20% Ship Upkeep
• Desperate Measures: +100% Ship Build Speed during a defensive war, +40% Home Territory Fire Rate
• Fortress Proclamation: +100% Starbase Upgrade Speed, +100% Defense Platform Build Speed
• Omnifarious Acquisition: +33% Monthly minerals
• Scientific Revolution: +20% Research Speed, +1 Research Alternatives
• Will to Power: +5 Monthly Influence
• Hearts and Minds: +100% Governing Ethics Attraction, +100% Ethics Shift Chance
• Architectural Renaissance: +1 Megastructure Build Capacity, +50% Megastructure Build Speed, +100% Planetary Build Speed

Should each specific tradition tree unlock a specific Ambition Edict?
(that later becomes available with the Ascension Theory technology)

 

[HFY]

The only times I've considered running Fortress proclamation were when I hadn't finished Unyielding, which would be the obvious association.

Not really a fan of this idea as presented.

 

[Incompetent]

One problem would be that some of these edicts are so powerful that they would skew the tradition choices, e.g. if Scientific Revolution was locked behind Discovery, it would make the total amount of tech advantage granted by Discovery absolutely overwhelming.

I think before we get into such big changes to how you access unity ambitions, the effects need to be rebalanced so they are comparable in strength. At the moment we have some universally powerful ones that everyone wants active, like Scientific Revolution and Will to Power, while others are fairly niche or just not that effective.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

It's an interesting idea, but would it matter? Would people actually choose a different tradition trees because of their associated ambitions?

I agree on principle that ambitions should come from somewhere, but I'm not sure about connecting existing ones to traditions. Unless something is drastically changed, I doubt it would make people seriously rethink their tradition choices.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I think this is kind of a neat idea, but you'd need to come up with a few more Ambitions if you want to match one to each tradition. You'd also need to come up with new ambitions each time a new tradition is added, since we expect to see more traditions in the future.

Thematically I think the breakdown comes out like this:

• Adaptability = ?
  • Versatility = ?
• Diplomacy = ?
• Discovery = Scientific Revolution
• Domination = Will to Power
• Expansion = ?
• Harmony = Hearts and Minds
  • Synchronicity = ?
• Mercantile = ?
• Prosperity = Omnifarious Acquisition, Architectural Renaissance
• Subterfuge = ?
• Supremacy = A Grand Fleet
• Unyielding = Desperate Measures, Fortress Proclamation

Possibly you could move the doubled-up ambitions (Architectural Renaissance and Fortress Proclamation) into basic ones every gets.

 

[Verx90]

umh... more than "unlocking it" i think ,at the moment , its probably better if they decrease the price of one or more ambitions .

while i get the idea , i would prefer they added actualy new edicts based on what tree you completed, instead of limiting something that already exist .


the important part is to be aware of the powercreep that come from new things added. and to allow the AI to use them properly .

 

[Wonoz]

I think I have a problem with how this seems to tip the balance in favor of agressive strategies even further. If the Ambitions would fit the Traditions a Supremacy, Propertiy, Discovery build would go even more BRRRRR than it already does while Expansion deteriorates even further just to name an example.
Not really the biggest fan tbh.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I think I have a problem with how this seems to tip the balance in favor of agressive strategies even further. If the Ambitions would fit the Traditions a Supremacy, Propertiy, Discovery build would go even more BRRRRR than it already does while Expansion deteriorates even further just to name an example.
Not really the biggest fan tbh.

As proposed, this would have absolutely no impact on an aggressive empire. They unlock ambitions at exactly the same time, with Ascension Theory. The only difference is they lose access to a bunch of ambitions, at least until they complete more tradition trees.

Functionally speaking, primarily what this suggestion would do is approximately double the number of ambitions without increasing how many you have access to in any given game. Theoretically it would specifically be taking away ambitions that aren't as useful to your strategy and replacing them with ones that are more relevant.

The other effect is delaying your access to the ambitions associated with the tradition trees you take later.

 

[Wonoz]

As proposed, this would have absolutely no impact on an aggressive empire. They unlock ambitions at exactly the same time, with Ascension Theory. The only difference is they lose access to a bunch of ambitions, at least until they complete more tradition trees.

Unless I am missing a point here; Ascention Theory is a somewhat late tech and would then unlock ambitions based on your traditions.

Theoretically it would specifically be taking away ambitions that aren't as useful to your strategy

So IF (and thats the point I tried to make) these ambitions match their corresponding traditions in flavor there is probably nothing good in store for things like adaptability or expansion. These are somewhat in the lower echelon (in my book at least) already and I can think of not much that matches their flavor thats still useful at that point of the game.

My concern is that regardless of what you give them; if you constrain the design by "has to match the tradition flavor" the expansion ambition will most likely by useless.
If you look at the expansion tree you get:
- cheaper starbases (cmon!)
- Empire size-modifier do not belong in ambitions design-wise
- Colony development speed (lol!)
- Extra disctrict (which also does not belong on a temporary-modifier such an ambition)

So we would be stuck with popgrowth as extra colonists are probably a little out of time-scope at this point unless we talk +5 or something nutty like that.

Are we really going to crunch how much % popgrowth an expansion tradition-ambition needs to be to compete with "omnifarious acquisition", "A grand fleet" or "scientific revolution"?
Because as soon as you tie traditons and ambitions together you need to balance that. If you just get all of them regardless you do not need to balance ambitions.
And I frankly do not see how this will not inevitably benefit aggressive strategies more.

 

[FinellyTrained]

Yay, less choice for no reason! I heard people liked it.