Untill pretty deep into the mid-late game I feel like stuff like monuments or theater aren't worth the building slot and CG. They do so little for what they cost and I'm usualy busy getting my alloy and research production up.
Am I the only one who feels unity buildings are terrible unless spritualist?
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I'll use the theater for amenity production, but aside from that yea. I don't think I need much unity till later. Too busy expanding at first.
For me it's alloy/tech > tradition all day. And besides, unless you're a unity build building a few monuments doesn't really help that much with tradition unlocks.
Monuments... not really worth it unless you are spiritualistic and even better if you have exalted prieshood.
Other option is to build that one theater and have amenities fixed. 4 unity vs 6 from monument is still good.
Even better if you can get your unity from some other source, like Technocracy. Or police state.
There is a major change, that tehnology no longer just let you spend more minerals, but have substancial buffs. Like 10% to production.
Other option is to build that one theater and have amenities fixed. 4 unity vs 6 from monument is still good.
Even better if you can get your unity from some other source, like Technocracy. Or police state.
There is a major change, that tehnology no longer just let you spend more minerals, but have substancial buffs. Like 10% to production.
You don't need to push unity hard unless you want to run several unity ambitions at once. Also temples are great.
I always build monuments and early. 10 jobs can be useful to open up some slots, plus extra society tech doesn't hurt. But mainly more unity means faster traditions. And the unity edicts (ambitions) are also powerful indeed. Will to power (+5 influence), omnifarious acquisition (+33% minerals), scientific revolution (+20% research) to mention a few. With enough unity you can run several of these constantly. If only unity didn't reset after a point.
I don't bother with unity building but I use theater almost every planets, to keep up tradition progress.
In early-mid game, I want unity fast enough so that I can unlock tradition and ascensioin perks. Theaters are enough for this. Late game, I have more unity than I can permanently enacting nice ambitions.
In early-mid game, I want unity fast enough so that I can unlock tradition and ascensioin perks. Theaters are enough for this. Late game, I have more unity than I can permanently enacting nice ambitions.
culture centers suck, that is for sure,
but there is alternatives
if i am playing anything non spiritualist i take byzantine bueracracy for the government complexes, for example. they are pretty good. aristocratic elite works too
basically any of the 5 or so exclusive government types, inclusing technocracy can work.
i will say that Exalted priesthood is pretty op in comparison to the options, but only for unity production, you dont get a special building or other bonuses.
Amenities are rather easy to get early game unlike unity, unless one plays as special governments. Monuments at the start, changing them to something else later, just to finish 3-4 tradition trees asap.
I think its just that for many playstyles there are enough ruler and specialist jobs with marginal Unity production that the dedicated unity building doesnt feel as necessary of a build as research buildings.
Its certainly good, but its not an urgent build on many playstyles.
Its certainly good, but its not an urgent build on many playstyles.
as a spiritualist I always build temple 1st.
as any other empire I sometimes skip monument and unity dedicated buildings til the mid-late game (cuz I rarely need more then 3-5 ascension perks anyway)
as any other empire I sometimes skip monument and unity dedicated buildings til the mid-late game (cuz I rarely need more then 3-5 ascension perks anyway)
I usually hit the point where I'm waiting on unity to get the fancy ascension perks, so I tend to push unity quite hard regardless. Granted, monuments in particular are not a high priority, but holo-theatres are pretty great, on smaller worlds they can end up boosting stability a lot.
Byzantine bureaucracy is, as I believe has been mentioned, pretty excellent if you want to push unity as a non-spiritualist. Administrators are just great jobs, and while they are ruler stratum they don't require consumer goods for the job itself, making them very cost-efficient.
Byzantine bureaucracy is, as I believe has been mentioned, pretty excellent if you want to push unity as a non-spiritualist. Administrators are just great jobs, and while they are ruler stratum they don't require consumer goods for the job itself, making them very cost-efficient.
yeah, if for some reason i am playing as non spiritualist, Byzantine bureaucracy is my best pick. its dlc only perk, unfortunately, but the extra -10% cg and -10% housing bonus it also provides actually makes non-authoritarian builds semi-viabe.
if you ever want to play without stratified society, this civic, the 1 point perk that reduces cg usage by another -10% and even enviromentalist (if you really want -30% though i wouldnt recommend going that far, mining guild better imo) work pretty well for lowering your cg upkeep to something near managable levels.
The big plus of this for you guys that hate clerks is that going this route does pretty much mean clerks wont be viable, so you could just close out their jobs, depend on the high number of amenities you get from bureacratic complextes and monuments. (unless you start runing low on amenity, then open them back up)
Also shared burdens will be a good choice as 3rd pick as your empire get ever more specialist heavy... which means you would be looking at
Fanatic Egalitarian, byzantine, mining guild, then shared burden as 3rd pick. use race with -10% housing and -10 cg usage traits to squeeze people in so you dont need so many city districts. I have played that, and it is best alternative i can come up to stratified economy... pick your choice for 3rd ethic point, but i was taking materialist because whole reason i built this is because i wanted robots which spiritaulists hate, lol.
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Corporate Culture building is better than normal culture building, but still not that useful.
For any given run, it's the first couple of tradition trees that are going to have the most impact for you, since you're obviously going to pick the best trees for whatever it is you're trying to do. And culture buildings have the most impact early since tradition costs are low early. So I do the opposite of what the OP does. I build culture buildings early, and ignore them late. Most of my colonies won't be filling out their building slots anyway since the pops will all be working districts.
I guess I'm in the minority.
I try to build planets so that I don't require holo-theaters and stuff like that. But I still want the actual culture workers to get unity, so culture buildings show up on most planets.
Then again, I don't think I push unity that hard. I will usually only complete all traditions by 2400. I was under the impression that others were pushing it harder.
I try to build planets so that I don't require holo-theaters and stuff like that. But I still want the actual culture workers to get unity, so culture buildings show up on most planets.
Then again, I don't think I push unity that hard. I will usually only complete all traditions by 2400. I was under the impression that others were pushing it harder.
Unity is normally the first thing I max out in every run, no matter which traits or civis I pick.
I don't think delaying unity by not building monuments is worth it. You want to get 4-5 ascenion perks as quickly as possible. Three are needed for your ascension project, and one or two more for either ecumonopolis and/or galactic wonders. And that is only if you are lucky and get the mega engeneering tech without picking voidborne and master buidlers. So actually, under normal circumstances, you want to get 6-7 ascenion perks as quickly as possible.
Additionally, I always want to get to the unity ambitions as quickly as possible, too. +33% monthly minerals is insane and normally increases my net mineral gain by 50-100%. So if I am able to hit that mid 2300s or even earlier with a specific setup, this will make up for any alloys/mineral/whatever loss until 2400 by far, enabling me to build more ships / claim more space / build more ecus / whatever compared to when I delay it. And it is not only only the minerals, but also science, more megastructures (even more minerals!), more influence and more naval cap.
This also holds true for your ascenion perks you picked before. The earlier you get them, the more you can benefit from it. And those one or two building slots gone will not delay your expansion, the only other limiting factor to how you do in late game.
So from my point of view, limiting unity is limiting yourself in every aspect. There is only one situation in which this not the way to go: If you are under threat. And this, thanks to our beloved highly evolved AI, is only the case for the first 20 years. And only if there is an aggressive war monger next to you.
I don't think delaying unity by not building monuments is worth it. You want to get 4-5 ascenion perks as quickly as possible. Three are needed for your ascension project, and one or two more for either ecumonopolis and/or galactic wonders. And that is only if you are lucky and get the mega engeneering tech without picking voidborne and master buidlers. So actually, under normal circumstances, you want to get 6-7 ascenion perks as quickly as possible.
Additionally, I always want to get to the unity ambitions as quickly as possible, too. +33% monthly minerals is insane and normally increases my net mineral gain by 50-100%. So if I am able to hit that mid 2300s or even earlier with a specific setup, this will make up for any alloys/mineral/whatever loss until 2400 by far, enabling me to build more ships / claim more space / build more ecus / whatever compared to when I delay it. And it is not only only the minerals, but also science, more megastructures (even more minerals!), more influence and more naval cap.
This also holds true for your ascenion perks you picked before. The earlier you get them, the more you can benefit from it. And those one or two building slots gone will not delay your expansion, the only other limiting factor to how you do in late game.
So from my point of view, limiting unity is limiting yourself in every aspect. There is only one situation in which this not the way to go: If you are under threat. And this, thanks to our beloved highly evolved AI, is only the case for the first 20 years. And only if there is an aggressive war monger next to you.
I searched screenshots of my last campaign, I found I hit 8th perk in 2375 and start running all ambitions by early 2400s or so. This was not unity-oriented build at all where I just build a theater in every planets and forget about unity. I am doing way faster in current campaign with different setup but still on the way to 6th perk so I don't have exact year yet.
It's worth noting that Unity buildings are one of the few buildings that can upgrade to a higher tier building WITHOUT requiring resources for their T2. So in situations where you are overflowing in base resources and limited by build slots (which is fairly common in the early to mid game), don't compare T1 unity buildings to other options like T1 research labs, compare T2 unity buildings to T1 labs.
Spiritualists certainly get an absolutely great bonus in temples. Priests produce half as many amenities as an entertainers, meaning a T2 temple produces as much as a T1 entertainer building.
I'd always build a temple as my first amenity building for spiritualists. For non-spiritualists the unity structure is generally constructed once I've carved out a decent amount of territory first. Due to how unity costs/sprawl penalties work you still want to get big for maximum tradition gain, so do that first and THEN power through the unlocks by building the unity buildings. Most of the good perks require a good economy and/or research to utilize them anyway.
Spiritualists certainly get an absolutely great bonus in temples. Priests produce half as many amenities as an entertainers, meaning a T2 temple produces as much as a T1 entertainer building.
I'd always build a temple as my first amenity building for spiritualists. For non-spiritualists the unity structure is generally constructed once I've carved out a decent amount of territory first. Due to how unity costs/sprawl penalties work you still want to get big for maximum tradition gain, so do that first and THEN power through the unlocks by building the unity buildings. Most of the good perks require a good economy and/or research to utilize them anyway.