Am I the only one that's a little thrown off by this?

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DanubianCossak

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Respect is to be earned. Hard to build, very easy to destroy.

Thanks for the voting with the wallet tip. Throughout the history it has been proven that it is an extremely effective way to deal with problems in consumer-oriented products. But I prefer using the high seas method, as it is more fun for everyone involved.

Actually, as one of the mods will most likely soon inform you, respect toward other people on this board is pretty much a requirement if you plan on remaining around. Trolling a dev is not nice, addressing one with insult, well thats just plain impolite. Where i come from a point can be made without calling someone a moron.
 

Rich028

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Respect is to be earned. Hard to build, very easy to destroy.

Thanks for the voting with the wallet tip. Throughout the history it has been proven that it is an extremely effective way to deal with problems in consumer-oriented products. But I prefer using the high seas method, as it is more fun for everyone involved.

Respect does have to be earned, like for example making some incredible games.

And am I reading it wrong or is the high seas remark talking about piracy? Because if that is the case I can't understand that level of entitlement. To use the bun analogy that's like going to but a bun, being informed need to pay 20p for your chocolate sprinkles, then stealing the bun.
 

Zander

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This means that some people were specifically assigned to stop working on events for the main game so they could make events for day 1 DLC instead.

This is not true, it may not be in this thread, but in several places Johan and other Paradox employees have said the folks working on the DLC were not working on EUIV at all. Different group.

I'd love to see a link on that, because I find it hard to imagine that someone without experience in EU4 is crafting event files.
 

unmerged(466619)

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TBH a better analogy would probably be going to a café, buying a coffee and having to pay extra if you want milk and sugar with it. Yes, coffee is a nice drink on its own, and yes, the milk and sugar represent an extra expense for the café owners; but most establishments are happy to give it to you without any additional charge, so having to pay more for it feels like you're being swindled.
 

stilgarpl

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TBH a better analogy would probably be going to a café, buying a coffee and having to pay extra if you want milk and sugar with it. Yes, coffee is a nice drink on its own, and yes, the milk and sugar represent an extra expense for the café owners; but most establishments are happy to give it to you without any additional charge, so having to pay more for it feels like you're being swindled.
Actually, they just charge you for the sugar and milk whether you take it not :) But, not all clients take sugar/milk, so they don't have to charge full price for it.

If they offered free DLCs for everyone, everyone would have free DLC. This analogy does not work.
 

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Respect is to be earned. Hard to build, very easy to destroy.

Thanks for the voting with the wallet tip. Throughout the history it has been proven that it is an extremely effective way to deal with problems in consumer-oriented products. But I prefer using the high seas method, as it is more fun for everyone involved.

I know, right? The other day I was thinking of buying a Porsche. But the damn thing is just way too expensive and I don't like the way the dealership interacted with me. But I really want that Porsche and since it's overpriced and the people selling it are jerks, I think I'm going to steal it to show them, it's just much more fun than not having a Porsche.

It's like I told the jerk at the Farmer's Market the other day when I walked away with two apples: "if you didn't want me to steal it you should have priced it fairly." Pretty sure he learned his lesson.
 

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I'd love to see a link on that, because I find it hard to imagine that someone without experience in EU4 is crafting event files.

Here you go:

I work 8 hour days, that's like 16 DLCs per day! We're rich now, RICH! :)

Seriously though, some of you might know I normally work on "Team Expansion" making TFH, HoD, etc. but right now I am working on some EUIV DLC. It's extra content that is produced to be sold (or given as bonuses in some cases), if it wasn't going to be DLC it wouldn't be made, there's no scenario where it becomes part of the base game for free because if we didn't expect a return on it I would be doing something else.
 

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Why does it matter if it was done before or after the release? It wasn't part of original project.
If they said instead, that preorders will get "first three DLCs for free" and then released those DLCs three weeks later, I guess no one would whine about it...

It matters cause we're lied to about reasons of first day DLC.
 

Buladelu

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You're bad at analogies. Let me explain:
The buns are cooked at the same time, yet each one consumes its own resources and is expected to be sold separately. Additional buns are not needed to consume the bun you purchased, but may be enjoyed.
Base game and day1 DLC are produced at the same time, yet each one consumes its own resources and is expected to be sold separately. Additional DLCs are not needed to play your base game, but may be enjoyed.

On the other hand, modern TVs tend to have no manual control panel and can only be used via the remote or a cumbersome menu system - the remote is almost vital and significantly impacts the use of the TV.

Edit: Damnit, now I am hungry :(

DLC is not another bun, it's more of an additional cream (or how do you call it in English?..). I may not want cream and I'm OK with default buns (even though bakery next street bakery sells it's buns already with cream on), but I don't want to hear baker explaining that cream is made by another guy so he has to sell it separately. I want him to be honest about his business model especially cause it satisfied me before he started rationalizing it.
 

Victor_Yuzo

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So if you don't want to pay more for the extra DLCs, don't buy them. I don't understand why there's so many people complaining about this, the majority of Paradox customers will probably support the company that makes the games they love to play, if you're so broke that you can't afford to pay for the day one DLC, which will probably be less than the cost of a good cheeseburger, you probably shouldn't be sitting around all day playing a video game.

Would you prefer if they just released only the Digital Extreme Edition and forced everyone to but it with all of the day one DLC? It would still be cheaper than a lot of games these days.
 

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Since you seem adept at moronic analogues, here's one: How would you think it would go if you went to a baker, and he sold you a bun with a bite taken out of it. And then he said he could sell you a full bun with extra price.

Fun times, eh? And to believe I used to defend paradox nickle-and-dime cosmetic DLCs. It really is true, more money you get, more greedy you get.

Listen, I need this DLC money to buy buns, you don't understand! :(
 

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Europa Universalis IV : A Bun Of Darkness.
04.jpg


:cool:
 

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DLC is not another bun, it's more of an additional cream (or how do you call it in English?..). I may not want cream and I'm OK with default buns (even though bakery next street bakery sells it's buns already with cream on), but I don't want to hear baker explaining that cream is made by another guy so he has to sell it separately. I want him to be honest about his business model especially cause it satisfied me before he started rationalizing it.

I think the word you want is "icing", although certainly cream buns are also things that exist. But...an iced bun DOES cost more than plan bun, because icing doesn't just appear by magic, it takes additional ingredients and preparation time. Why would the baker explaining this upset you if someone was yelling at him about the iced buns costing more than the plain ones using the terrible logic of them being baked at the same time?
 

Vishaing

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It matters cause we're lied to about reasons of first day DLC.
No, No you aren't being lied to. The Developers and several other forum members have explained, repeatedly, exhaustingly, truthfully, and some times with fancy graphics, that this is the way business is done, while explaining both the economic and personal rationales for doing business in this way. You may not like the explanation, but that does not change the fact that it is an accurate, correct, and honest explanation.

Whenever people complain about being "lied to" or how content is "cut out" of the game or how it "could have been included" they are demonstrating only their own staggering ignorance of anything at all even slightly related to how game development actually works, and in many cases, how even the most basic system of economics works.

Actually, given how incessantly this is asked, and how many times the answer has been repeated, the only time someone in these discussions is lying is whenever one of the critics of this system accuses the devs of "cutting out" content to sell as extra.

That's the lie.
So if you really don't like being lied to. Stop Lying.
 

Buladelu

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No, No you aren't being lied to. The Developers and several other forum members have explained, repeatedly, exhaustingly, truthfully, and some times with fancy graphics, that this is the way business is done, while explaining both the economic and personal rationales for doing business in this way. You may not like the explanation, but that does not change the fact that it is an accurate, correct, and honest explanation.

I think you accuse someone else, not me, but anyway, from a consumer viewpoint First day DLC is nothing else but cutting out content. Of course it's a question of perspective; if you call those DLCs "Collector's edition bonuses" people will understand. But then they'll whine that they can't buy those bonuses... So yeah, First day DLC is an optimal solution and the only problem is how it's presented and explained. The explanation in OP post is absurd and may cause instant berserk.

I think the word you want is "icing", although certainly cream buns are also things that exist. But...an iced bun DOES cost more than plan bun, because icing doesn't just appear by magic, it takes additional ingredients and preparation time. Why would the baker explaining this upset you if someone was yelling at him about the iced buns costing more than the plain ones using the terrible logic of them being baked at the same time?

The only way it upsets me is it's inconvinience - there're 25 Crusader Kings 2 DLCs, I think, so the game may feel "incomplete" all the time. That's inconvinient; I can't believe someone buys Russian Faces DLC but won't buy Russian Unit Pack or Norse Faces. Otherwise it's a fine model, maybe requiring some tuning and "The Definitely Final Version" when you're done with the game.
 

Darkrenown

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Fair enough. There is a collection that has everything before TOG, but I guess it can be a bit hard to manage if you have some bits and are searching for the ones you don't yet.
 

Vishaing

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And the Consumer Viewpoint is Wrong. It is Wrong. It is Not Correct. It is False. No single part of it is at all Correct. It is not applicable. It operates under false assumptions.

The DLC content was not cut out of the original product. It was never part of the original product. It doesn't understand how business works, or how game development works, and its continuous propagation by the above all else entitled masses despite frequent, detailed, correct, honest, repeated explanations of exactly how wrong it is is simply infuriating to watch.

It is Wrong.
Deal with it.

That said yeah, purchasing all of the DLC at once could be more convenient.
 
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