Am I the only one that's a little thrown off by this?

[James The 1st]

A rough summary of it would be bad comparisons with buns and beer bottles, Johan hilariously using Heart of Iron 3 epicly bugged release as an excuse for Day 1 DLC, and claims of budgeting for base game that cannot be changed as if "base game" was actually a monolithic structure, where nothing could be removed or added that was not foreseen from the get go. Unfortunately, the point still stands that the difference between putting the DLC into the released game or monetizing it, is between more or less profits. As I said, it is a legitimate business model, just not very honest. Thus it's not surprising that it is being seen as a money grab.

What? Johan said HoI 3 is the reason why they are being more focused in their games instead of having insane feature bloat.

 

[Garak]

What? Johan said HoI 3 is the reason why they are being more focused in their games instead of having insane feature bloat.

Some people are just determined to be upset about things, no matter what. There is literally zero point arguing, as anything you say will only further convince them they're right.

 

[Merrivale]

I just read it, and besides the fallacy that there will always be a Day 1 DLC (As opposed to including it in the game on release), I see nothing that contradicts anything that I stated.

I did not say there would always be a day 1 DLC, but that there would always be something left out of the game. Ergo there will always be something that could be a day 1 DLC. The other part of my post is that the actual release day of the DLC is irrelevant because it's a different team working on it, so this fixation on day 1 is silly. Is your stance that Paradox can include anything and everything they would like to in the base game and A)release on schedule B)release on budget?

It very well may be that Portugal should have seen more development time in the base game as you say, but that would take development time away from something else: development under a schedule and a budget is a zero-sum process. So ultimately, including the Portugal content would have left something else for a hypothetical DLC, day 1 or day 500. That's my point.

Your point appears to be that Paradox is purposely choosing shorter development cycles and smaller budgets in order to make more money and their success as a company proves that they are, to some degree, ripping us off by doing so. They could have done this day 1 DLC and a lot more and still sold the game at $50 and made a tidy profit. Having been around here as long as you have, I can only say I don't agree, but you are entitled to your opinion. But guess what, even if they done exactly that, something would still have gotten left out and still could have been made as a day 1 DLC.

 

[Billy Bob Joe]

Actually, I had already skimmed the thread for the posts of the developers.

A rough summary of it would be bad comparisons with buns and beer bottles, Johan hilariously using Heart of Iron 3 epicly bugged release as an excuse for Day 1 DLC, and claims of budgeting for base game that cannot be changed as if "base game" was actually a monolithic structure, where nothing could be removed or added that was not foreseen from the get go. Unfortunately, the point still stands that the difference between putting the DLC into the released game or monetizing it, is between more or less profits. As I said, it is a legitimate business model, just not very honest. Thus it's not surprising that it is being seen as a money grab.

Explain how it is "not very honest" to charge for DLC.

 

[Duke of Awesome]

Explain how it is "not very honest" to charge for DLC.

The answer is in the last 35 pages.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

The answer is in the last 35 pages.

That's very helpful...

 

[Lord Canterbury]

I just read it, and besides the fallacy that there will always be a Day 1 DLC (As opposed to including it in the game on release), I see nothing that contradicts anything that I stated.

Not quite. More accurately it points out why:
- DLC must be paid for - thus it will be given out for free.
- Some amount of DLC will usually be available on day 1

Presumably you are arguing that either:
1 - DLC available on day 1 is given to you for free - in which case you need to reread post #591 more carefully.
2 - or DLC available on day 1 should be artificially delayed by a few months.

Option 2 would actually be quite good PR, as it would stop those who lack the subtlety to differentiate between PI's business practices and EA's business practice from whining. On the downside it would also stop gamers getting there hands on available content as quickly (though said gamers may not care as they would be busy playing their new copy of EUIV).

Personally, I'd be entirely happy with option 2, as I want to see Paradox thrive, and day 1 DLC will cause anger amongst a sizable minority of their target market... even if that anger is illogical.

 

[Captain Gars]

I didnt want to post in here,because i believe everything that could be said about day1 dlc has be said.
However your attempt to troll (Wich failed) has drawn my attention yet again to this thread.

If my reading comprehension ist my forte ,surly your (paradox) forte isnt making musicals (even if i tries to be funny) ,what is your forte is making great games , too bad your forte is also emulating bad business. (aka EA kind of business)
Like i said if you want to talk,insult or whatever is on your mind ,just send me a pm and stop posting offtopic flambait post.

Trevlig dag!

You accusing us of lying when I said that the musicals were done by people in their spare time is the only trolling going on. Keep it up and you'll find some infraction points coming your way.

 

[Shnipe]

If I may chip into the thread, I have no problems with Paradox creating extra DLC that wouldn't have been included in the base game anyway, but I just hate this culture of microtransactions. I am a completist, I like to have everything that a game has to offer. If I were to buy all the DLC's separately then I would be paying through the nose for it. I wish Paradox will eventually offer some deal for all the DLC together at a more reasonable price than simply adding the individual DLC prices together.

Steam Sales.

Honestly, it would probably be worth taking option 2 just to avoid this sort of idiocy and anger on the forums.

 

[Rasec]

But CK II which also uses the DLC system can be modded quite substantially also on Graphics from what I have seen. I see graphic dlc:s as a way for those of us who either usually don´t use mods (like myself) or want to support the extra effort Paradox puts into these DLC:s.

Sure, there are some great graphical mods for CK2, like NBRT+ and the portrait mods, but these are mainly just texture work done over existing assets. The stuff that matters to DLC, specifically unit models/animations are basically locked away. The only recent game since this DLC policy has been put into place which allowed assets to be modified was March of the Eagles, and it has received no DLC to date, if any was ever planned to begin with.

 

[dragon123]

@Captain Gars

Again you choose to do this in public ,dont you think it would be more proffesional to do this in a pm?

About me accusing you(paradox of lying),i never said right out that you are lying i was just sceptical,guess you (paradox) want only praise and no criticism.

You say: Keep it up and you'll find some infraction points coming your way.

I say :I will keep disliking day1 dlc,even if you threaten me.

 

[Duke Von Hannover]

@Captain Gars

Again you choose to do this in public ,dont you think it would be more proffesional to do this in a pm?

About me accusing you(paradox of lying),i never said right out that you are lying i was just sceptical,guess you (paradox) want only praise and no criticism.

You say: Keep it up and you'll find some infraction points coming your way.

I say :I will keep disliking day1 dlc,even if you threaten me.

First off you aren't meant to respond to coloured text from Mods or Devs in public. Second off you did accuse them of lying. You said after he confirmed that it was after work and without any budgetary effect: "(in there free time,yeah right)" Which as far as I can see is an accusation even if it's subtle. His response about your reading comprehension was warranted as obviously you did not read anything that had been said and your argument has no evidence that day 1 DLC affects the content in the main game in fact all evidence points to the contrary. So please before you make more of a fool of yourself stop making silly comments.

Good day.

 

[WeissRaben]

And don't worry, I'm not butthurt. Contrary to you, I've been here long enough (Since EU2/Vicky 1) to see what was the opposite business model that brought them to where they stand.

And you saw the huge free patches, graphical improvements and expansions given for free because they should have been in the base game anyway?

 

[Johan]

A rough summary of it would be bad comparisons with buns and beer bottles, Johan hilariously using Heart of Iron 3 epicly bugged release as an excuse for Day 1 DLC, and claims of budgeting for base game that cannot be changed as if "base game" was actually a monolithic structure, where nothing could be removed or added that was not foreseen from the get go. Unfortunately, the point still stands that the difference between putting the DLC into the released game or monetizing it, is between more or less profits. As I said, it is a legitimate business model, just not very honest. Thus it's not surprising that it is being seen as a money grab.

Yes, it gives us more money.. So we can spend more time on the games.. and have a proper QA team, and more coders and scripters.

And don't worry, I'm not butthurt. Contrary to you, I've been here long enough (Since EU2/Vicky 1) to see what was the opposite business model that brought them to where they stand.

Opposite business model got us an understaffed team working lots of overtime and releasing games early to get money, and postrelease bugfixing being done on weekends in my sparetime.

Fuck no. I never want to go back there. With this new business model, people can go home after working their office hours, and we don't get deaththreats because of buggy games.

 

[apg]

Yes, it gives us more money.. So we can spend more time on the games.. and have a proper QA team, and more coders and scripters.



Opposite business model got us an understaffed team working lots of overtime and releasing games early to get money, and postrelease bugfixing being done on weekends in my sparetime.

Fuck no. I never want to go back there. With this new business model, people can go home after working their office hours, and we don't get deaththreats because of buggy games.

lol its good to know you may no longer receive death threats!

 

[Phibs]

Please tell me that was never really a thing!

 

[Cymsdale]

Wanting to be able to relax on the weekends and not get death threats? Corporate greed!

 

[dragon123]

First off you aren't meant to respond to coloured text from Mods or Devs in public. Second off you did accuse them of lying. You said after he confirmed that it was after work and without any budgetary effect: "(in there free time,yeah right)" Which as far as I can see is an accusation even if it's subtle. His response about your reading comprehension was warranted as obviously you did not read anything that had been said and your argument has no evidence that day 1 DLC affects the content in the main game in fact all evidence points to the contrary. So please before you make more of a fool of yourself stop making silly comments.

Good day.

Its me being sceptical,not saying they outright lie,am just NOT SURE if i believe it 100% yet ,one can have its doubs ,yes?
Not sure why you even respond to me,that post was for Captain Gars,iam sure he doesnt need your help.

Oh and a good day ofc.

 

[Duke Von Hannover]

Its me being sceptical,not saying they outright lie,am just NOT SURE if i believe it 100% yet ,one can have its doubs ,yes?
Not sure why you even respond to me,that post was for Captain Gars,iam sure he doesnt need your help.

Oh and a good day ofc.

I responded to you because you are annoying most people here, and because I thought you should be informed that you look like an idiot so I was explaining why.

 

[Jango40]

I read all of the comments by devs, and well, I do see they have a point. However, simple human nature makes me feel that releasing a game and releasing something else for the game at the same time is bad.