Am I the only one that's a little thrown off by this?

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Darkrenown

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You do realize that "just writing events" is a specific job at PDS the same as "just doing some graphics" and "just coding some stuff", right?

Why is it OK for Aerie to be done with his regular work and thus go do some DLC graphics so that PDS can go on paying his salary, but everyone loses their minds if CaptainGars does the same? So, the planned events were done before the game is gold and instead of reassigning the scripters to another project (and no one getting extra special events), PDS decided to follow the CK2 model and keep them on to produce DLC-content.
The name's are just a randomly chosen graphics artist and event scripter, I've no idea who actually did the work. The point is, it's the same principle wether it's about their graphics department or the event scripters.

If you think 5 bucks is too much for what the deluxe edition offers, don't buy it. But insulting the event scripters by saying their work is generally not worth paying for, because "everyone can do that in half an hour" is rude to the extreme.

I work 8 hour days, that's like 16 DLCs per day! We're rich now, RICH! :)

Seriously though, some of you might know I normally work on "Team Expansion" making TFH, HoD, etc. but right now I am working on some EUIV DLC. It's extra content that is produced to be sold (or given as bonuses in some cases), if it wasn't going to be DLC it wouldn't be made, there's no scenario where it becomes part of the base game for free because if we didn't expect a return on it I would be doing something else.
 

Darkrenown

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So when you found out the thing you wanted to buy had free extras you decided not to buy it? Well, it's up to you, but I don't follow your logic.
 

Darkrenown

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I don't really see it as "extras" during the pre-order if it was that you would offer all of the "extra" dlcs during the whole pre-order period. I find your new pre-order whatever it is thing rather repulsive. A

I have no idea what this means.

I like Paradox policy of modular DLC with graphichs, but this rationalization of a Day 1 DLC is a load of misguiding half-truth. Why should the work that has been done before release be considered as something extra? Paradox should be honest about it: "You can buy full version of the game if you want, or some crippled in not important aspects game".

Here is an experiment for you:
Go to a bakery, buy a bun. Once you have paid and received your bun, demand that they also give you all the other buns that were baked in the same batch for no additional cost. Why should you only get one bun when they were all baked at the same time? Let us know how it goes.
 

Darkrenown

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Go to an electronics shop, buy a TV. You are informed that if you want the remote control included, you must buy the deluxe television. Let us know your reaction!

You're bad at analogies. Let me explain:
The buns are cooked at the same time, yet each one consumes its own resources and is expected to be sold separately. Additional buns are not needed to consume the bun you purchased, but may be enjoyed.
Base game and day1 DLC are produced at the same time, yet each one consumes its own resources and is expected to be sold separately. Additional DLCs are not needed to play your base game, but may be enjoyed.

On the other hand, modern TVs tend to have no manual control panel and can only be used via the remote or a cumbersome menu system - the remote is almost vital and significantly impacts the use of the TV.

Edit: Damnit, now I am hungry :(
 

Darkrenown

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Your anology more suits that if a player was buying the game, and expecting every other game printed that day to come with the price.
A more proper anology would be buying a bun, and expecting it to contain spices. You don't need the spices to enjoy the bun, but they sure do add to the flavor.

No, the people claiming day1 DLC should be in the base game literally are expecting extra things for the same cost. Let's continue the bun-based arguments, they work so well:
You go into the bakery, they have plain buns and slightly more expensive spiced buns. "Hey!", you exclaim, "You baked those spiced buns at the same time as the plain buns! I should get a spiced bun at the same cost as the plain bun!"

I'll go ahead and explain in advance: The spiced bun has extra content added, above what goes into the plain bun. The plain bun is still a fine, tasty bun, but the spiced bun has added spices and it costs a little more even though it was baked in the same batch!
Plain bun = base game.
Spiced bun = extreme edition.

Edit: Merrivale is wise.
 

Darkrenown

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Since you seem adept at moronic analogues, here's one: How would you think it would go if you went to a baker, and he sold you a bun with a bite taken out of it. And then he said he could sell you a full bun with extra price.

Fun times, eh? And to believe I used to defend paradox nickle-and-dime cosmetic DLCs. It really is true, more money you get, more greedy you get.

Listen, I need this DLC money to buy buns, you don't understand! :(
 

Darkrenown

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DLC is not another bun, it's more of an additional cream (or how do you call it in English?..). I may not want cream and I'm OK with default buns (even though bakery next street bakery sells it's buns already with cream on), but I don't want to hear baker explaining that cream is made by another guy so he has to sell it separately. I want him to be honest about his business model especially cause it satisfied me before he started rationalizing it.

I think the word you want is "icing", although certainly cream buns are also things that exist. But...an iced bun DOES cost more than plan bun, because icing doesn't just appear by magic, it takes additional ingredients and preparation time. Why would the baker explaining this upset you if someone was yelling at him about the iced buns costing more than the plain ones using the terrible logic of them being baked at the same time?
 

Darkrenown

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Fair enough. There is a collection that has everything before TOG, but I guess it can be a bit hard to manage if you have some bits and are searching for the ones you don't yet.
 

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Day 1 dlc is ALWAYS cut content and should be included in the release game.
Remember the time, when patches actually added content and not just only fixed a completely unplayable bug-mess?
Paradox is greedy as hell, instead of investing more time into the QA, they work on day 1 DLC and release an unplayable turd.

Cool story. So tell us, what games have you worked on that gives you such an insight into the industry?

I do remember back in the distant days of yesterday when a CK2 patch added new content, and if I strain my memory I can even remember back to a week or so ago when the 1.10 patch added lots more.

What else can you tell us from the future where you come from about the EUIV release? Did you bring back any lottery numbers, or was the sole purpose of your journey to warn people about EU?
 

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I'd be worried if they only spent 5 minutes on an event, despite how long it takes to write 40 lines worth of an event. If its effects are not considered carefully, you could get an event that breaks the game.

Of course, 'cosmetic' events (things that point out what happened when in history) shouldn't take too long.
As a modder, I'd be worried if I started using more than 5 minutes on a single minor event. A few conditions and two options really aren't hard to code. Note that this does not include time to make artwork, which obviously takes longer.
Larger events on the other hand definitely take a lot more work, as they both take longer to code, and more testing is required before they can be considered done. Some of the larger event chains I've made I've spent several hours on, but those are far more complex than flavor events.
 

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I personally think that is the most important measure on what a game costs, value.
Going by that metric though, Portal 1 would be a game only worth a few dollars at most.
Or perhaps the €15 I spent to play 13 hours means that I should've actually spent about €1000 to play 930 hours of CKII.

Longevity is far from the only metric by which games should be priced.
 

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Oh it's only $40 in America? Sad it's $54.62 here in the United Kingdom... So it costs Paradox $14.62 more with each game to sell in the UK than US? Or something?

The extreme edition is even worse with $44 in America and $62 in UK. That is 40% more expensive because of where I live. I get different countries different rules but would it really cost that much more to sell here? I guess I'm quite ignorant about these things but 40% difference seems a lot to me.
Same in continental Europe as well, sadly.
 

Meneth

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Hmm indeed, although the Euro is closer to $ than £ so it's not as bad :p (yes I do not have a euro sign on my keyboard :p). I just noticed that the Old gods DLC is $15 US & $15.61 UK, so basically no difference.

Therefore I can only wonder why EUIV, a digital only game like DLC from the same company costs 40% more in UK than US.
€45 for the EXTREME edition here, which is $60.
Always fun to be paying a third more. Especially as I'm not even in the EU, so I don't even use euros.
 

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Your VAT is what, 20%? We don't have an online sales tax, at least not most of the time. The way the law works is that an online retailer isn't compelled to collect a state's sales tax unless the business has physical locations (warehouses and servers count) in the same state as the buyer. So, in America, you won't pay sales tax on Steam unless you live in Washington. Then there's purchasing power, something which isn't considered in the value of a currency. Without getting too deep into the weeds, I'll mention that the Canadian dollar has been floating around parity with the American dollar for a while now but has decidedly less purchasing power on a dollar-to-dollar comparison.
Meanwhile, I don't even pay tax on online purchases, yet get inflated EUR = USD prices:
Subtotal
7.99 EUR
Tax
0.00 EUR
 
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