Am I the only one that's a little thrown off by this?

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Doimper

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So Paradox is going to be having some Day 1 DLCs. They've previously explained that the graphic artists have nothing to do while the rest of the team is hard at work, so they create unit packs and such to bankroll the awesome, free patches we get. That's great. I'm totally fine with that, and you should be too - creating graphics is a whole lot of work, after all!

Thing is, though - I can't help but notice that with the Day 1 Star and Crescent DLC, they're including events - stuff that takes a half hour at most to whip up, and has no reason not to be included in the main game. Am I the only one that feels a bit cheated by this?
 

Count Lake

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A few other threads are already deep in discussion about this. Even the announcement thread itself has a dialogue going on. Plenty of people feel the same way as you.

Think of it like this..... the deluxe edition of the game is only $44.99, cheaper than many other games out there that will give you only a fraction of the hours of enjoyment the typical Paradox game. Simply act like the standard edition doesn't exist and buy the deluxe edition, getting everything!
 

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You know, I always have to wonder what people are basing their estimates on when they start saying things like "stuff that takes a half hour at most to whip up". I have spent Days working on the Trigger for a Single Event. Now granted I program very complicated events, but still. This isn't even getting into the amount of time you need to spend testing even the simplest event.

And all of that doesn't matter anyways because producing these events is still the Programmer's Job. They need to be Paid, because they need to Eat. Demanding that these events produced outside of the core game's development schedule using a different budget be included in the core game is demanding that the Company just eat the cost of those programmer's Salaries.
 

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I'm having trouble trying to figure out why this is such a big deal, if you don't want the extra content, don't buy it.
 

Genro

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I'm having trouble trying to figure out why this is such a big deal, if you don't want the extra content, don't buy it.

This, Paradox is one of the few developers that listen to their customers. They are a relatively small company in the gaming industry and I would be more than happy to support them while getting a little extra from them. Hardly being "Cheated."
 

mechaerik

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Paradox is one of the few developers that listen to their customers.

I think this is at least one reason for the spate of DLC; on this sub-forum (and on the CKII one, but to a lesser extent) I've seen quite a few people asking for the most trivial things to be added as DLC. Other times someone will pop in with a relatively good idea or concept and then, no matter how small the idea is, someone will inevitably chime in saying that Paradox should make a DLC for that.
 

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You can really tell that PDS has a spoiled fan base, and I mean that positively. :D
 

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I'm having trouble trying to figure out why this is such a big deal, if you don't want the extra content, don't buy it.

That's addressing the wrong complaint. Most of the contention is centered around PI's decision to mix actual game improvements into the cosmetic DLC. This is new and it's also happening on day one, which is worrying to some. Previously these sorts of things would come in patches or be bundled up into expansions. While no one is entitled to these improvements for free, not everyone wants to have to splurge on otherwise cosmetic DLC to improve actual gameplay, especially when PI pretty clearly avoided that in the past.

This sentiment I've been seeing is hilariously wrong.

In all fairness I can whip up half a dozen decent events on my lunch break. I've done it before and it takes only moderate skill and minimal testing. While half an hour to make a small DLC's worth of events is almost assuredly an underestimate, it's much more realistic than saying it would take weeks or months, as some have suggested in the other threads.
 

king of AR

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it was probably one of those "oh hey I had a few event ideas that would make the game better" "well we are kinda far along and doing bug testing ,tell ya what throw it into day one Dlc while we do this that way people have access to it but it doesn't require them to get it."plus guys it's something like 4-6 dlcs with the deluxe edition for what 5 more dollars ? hell I'm more than happy to give my money to them.
 

Dragnar

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You do realize that "just writing events" is a specific job at PDS the same as "just doing some graphics" and "just coding some stuff", right?

Why is it OK for Aerie to be done with his regular work and thus go do some DLC graphics so that PDS can go on paying his salary, but everyone loses their minds if CaptainGars does the same? So, the planned events were done before the game is gold and instead of reassigning the scripters to another project (and no one getting extra special events), PDS decided to follow the CK2 model and keep them on to produce DLC-content.
The name's are just a randomly chosen graphics artist and event scripter, I've no idea who actually did the work. The point is, it's the same principle wether it's about their graphics department or the event scripters.

If you think 5 bucks is too much for what the deluxe edition offers, don't buy it. But insulting the event scripters by saying their work is generally not worth paying for, because "everyone can do that in half an hour" is rude to the extreme.
 

ubermachtig

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Personally I understand the mixed feelings. I do not advocate day 1 DLC. However, to be honest, if I take the amount of time I've spend into EU3 and the loads of fun I had with it into consideration, I am well-willing to pay 5 Euro extra to support Paradox Interactive. Nowadays I feel like a shunted gamer. The industry I once loved became too much of a commercial success. Every time it leaves me with an empty feeling when I play a new game. Grid 2, Far Cry 3, Assasins Creed 3, they are all great games I've pre-ordered, and nothing but credits to the developers. However, they do not give me the joy I had with their prequels. Maybe I am to much of a nostalgic person, remembering the times I worked for Codemasters and hoped to be a part of the reincarnation of Operation Flashpoint but was left with an empty feeling. while I am not saying the game was necessarily bad, it was not able to catch the atmosphere the original did.

To get back on topic, the sheer lack of developers that still listen to their community is tearing down my interest in gaming as a whole. However, playing EU3, or Victoria 2 for some reason never becomes a boring thing. While it is anything but nostalgic for me (since I 'only' became aware of the games around 2010 or so), these games still pack a certain feeling. A feeling that is worthy of the extra money. I see a certain kind of affection between the developers and the community, a kind of affection that is non-existent in many other places.

Despite that, the mixed feelings that are being raised within the community should be taken seriously. DLC can definitely work as a boomerang. They generate profit at first, but those that 'dissent' may become more reluctant in buying games in the future, which causes an overall loss on the long term. For me personally, I am somewhat eager to buy 'everything they throw at me', yet the problem should be reviewed upon with respect and consideration from the rest of the community and from the developers' side.
 

Math2

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I can agree with that...I don't really understand the argument that it wasn't made at the same time as the rest and shouldn't be included...I mean, you have to test it before it's released, why is that any different than testing the rest of it? I will probably buy it, but it defiinitely makes me wary about the path PI is going down, and I may have to reconsider just buying their stuff if their going to have Day 1, gameplay changing DLC
 

Darkrenown

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You do realize that "just writing events" is a specific job at PDS the same as "just doing some graphics" and "just coding some stuff", right?

Why is it OK for Aerie to be done with his regular work and thus go do some DLC graphics so that PDS can go on paying his salary, but everyone loses their minds if CaptainGars does the same? So, the planned events were done before the game is gold and instead of reassigning the scripters to another project (and no one getting extra special events), PDS decided to follow the CK2 model and keep them on to produce DLC-content.
The name's are just a randomly chosen graphics artist and event scripter, I've no idea who actually did the work. The point is, it's the same principle wether it's about their graphics department or the event scripters.

If you think 5 bucks is too much for what the deluxe edition offers, don't buy it. But insulting the event scripters by saying their work is generally not worth paying for, because "everyone can do that in half an hour" is rude to the extreme.

I work 8 hour days, that's like 16 DLCs per day! We're rich now, RICH! :)

Seriously though, some of you might know I normally work on "Team Expansion" making TFH, HoD, etc. but right now I am working on some EUIV DLC. It's extra content that is produced to be sold (or given as bonuses in some cases), if it wasn't going to be DLC it wouldn't be made, there's no scenario where it becomes part of the base game for free because if we didn't expect a return on it I would be doing something else.
 

Grubnessul

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People that bought the EU3 CE got the highlander spirit for free at some point. See the extra events as Collectors Edition material.
 

justin6477

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Since no one has brought it up, maybe no one here has noticed that in Steam we get 10% off if we've got another EU title in our library? Seriously, the deluxe edition ends up costing 50 cents more than the regular price of the game with that haircut. Paradox has also been good to us with CK2, I see no reason to expect that to change.
 

panionios

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I work 8 hour days, that's like 16 DLCs per day! We're rich now, RICH! :)

Seriously though, some of you might know I normally work on "Team Expansion" making TFH, HoD, etc. but right now I am working on some EUIV DLC. It's extra content that is produced to be sold (or given as bonuses in some cases), if it wasn't going to be DLC it wouldn't be made, there's no scenario where it becomes part of the base game for free because if we didn't expect a return on it I would be doing something else.

You could wait 3-4 months and release it then. Many people, including myself, when seeing a new game released and on the same date some form of an expansion pack also released for that game, will naturally ask the question "why is it not included in the game?" I do believe you when you say that it is indeed extra content that would otherwise have not been made, but still, I don't like the timing.
 

Kyoumen

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You could wait 3-4 months and release it then. Many people, including myself, when seeing a new game released and on the same date some form of an expansion pack also released for that game, will naturally ask the question "why is it not included in the game?" I do believe you when you say that it is indeed extra content that would otherwise have not been made, but still, I don't like the timing.

Whereas other people would rather have access to it when it's done, rather than at some arbitrary later point to soothe the sensibilities of others. It really, honestly baffles me why these discussions don't begin and end with "If you don't want to pay for it for whatever reason, don't buy it".
 

panionios

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It really, honestly baffles me why these discussions don't begin and end with "If you don't want to pay for it for whatever reason, don't buy it".

Because it is human nature! Most people (including myself on occasion, I must admit) often overlook what's in plain view, suspecting that something (usually bad, in this case exploiting the customer to get filthy rich quickly) is hidden behind the scene.
 

Pyoro

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Well, what do you expect? With other publishers whose names shall not be named printing their DLC on the disc (which means the DLC must've been finished ages ago, since obviously that doesn't happen a day before release ^^) and then asking for money simply to "unlock" it you can't expect people to associate good consumer service with "day 1 DLC". (and surely they'd argue exactly the same - that the DLC never would've been produced if it weren't DLC. Well, who can judge that...).
 
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