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Nyaruko

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20220124074652_1.jpg

(Played in Chinese so change to English will result encoding issue)



This is my first attempt to fight 25x crisis,I had about 4000+ battleships(naval capacity),and about XXXV both damage and attack speed repeatable techs.
Crisis is yet to come,I still have time to prepare

1642981862400.png


Using cheap battleships
 

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Unseelie

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I've only gone up against a 15x crisis, and that with a group of friends, but if you're on your own, I'd really suggest more alloys a month. If you lose one of those fleets, replacing it will take years and years.
 
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FinbarFlin

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Around 3+ month ago someone postet a X25 contingancy crisis... the roaming fleets had a fleet power of 4 or 5 millions i think... battleships going down just after 1 hit... i dont know how powerful the other crisis are... but they might be nearly as powerful...

Playing a game with X25 crisis is not a normal game... its all about pimping your empire for that one special thing

- Megastructures and Ecus are a must have as the dyson sphere and matter decompressor will allow you to relocate hundreds of pops away from mineral and energy production towards ALLOYS...
- The Guardian of the Galaxy ascension perk gives you extra 50% firepower
- There are certain Federation types that will grant you another 50% firepower against crisis
- Go "no retreat" stance for fleets for more firepower
- Go every other civic giving you more firepower
- Activate every edict for more firepower
- Go authoritarian and corvee system to relocate said hundreds of pops without the unity cost
- Adjust your pop growth before game as you will need at least 2000 - 3000 pops
- Several thousand fleet capacity is a must have, but go over it and use your, at this point mostly unneeded, energy to sustain our fleet
- Ecus are a must have and best alloy prduction and i think you will need like +5000 every month to even barely replace your losses

BTW OP

Can you tell how big your doomstack is? Some information are missing...
 
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Nyaruko

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- The Guardian of the Galaxy ascension perk gives you extra 50% firepower
- There are certain Federation types that will grant you another 50% firepower against crisis
- Go "no retreat" stance for fleets for more firepower
- Go every other civic giving you more firepower
These are unimportant because they are repeatable tech.For me,41K tech in 2340,It only takes about 6 months to increase 5% dmg/atk speed.
unrepeatable bonuses are more important,such as:range.
 

FinbarFlin

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As i said the dude postet a pic with crisis fleets having 4 to 5 million fleet power... your total doomstack fleet power is around 2 to 2,5 million... hard to say if its enough... with those two +50% damage to crisis ships modifiers i would feel safer... or you could dump those plates because your ships might be a one shot anyway if its right what the dude said... and add neutrons instead or those cloud lightning weapons.... this would push your single fleet power from 120K to around 160K maybe and thus your total doomstack fleet power would be 3.2 to 3.5 millions...

If the crisis would not be batshit coded you still might win because their fleets tended to bounce between systems going nowhere and stupid stuff like that... but IF the crisis is better coded now and the fleets behave proper you might have not enough fleet power... IF all X25 crisis are as strong as the one the dude spoke about

EDIT1) The no retreat stance is like + 40% attack speed if i remember it right... that is a whooping 8 levels of repeatables for ALL weapons... you think your battleships can survive more than one shot of the X25 crisis and actually disengage? The dude said battleships die with one shot and thus cant disengage... so choosing this stance only gives you benefits...
 
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7ED

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You should be fine once you install all the large weapon slots. Mind you, I think your alloy income is fine, but I'm usually 50x repeatables at this point. Teching a 25x crisis into oblivion is a very real option--In fact that's what I usually do dealing with all 3 crises at 25x strength. I'm not sure more alloy output would be a solution since that would involve insane amounts of planet management that will drive any micromanaging player completely mad.

Also I am not convinced of your bship layout. I know players on the forums are always harping on the hull plates, but if your tech is high enough, and you are optimizing your repeatables so you only have energy weapons and armor, you can get get so many repeatables in armor that you would rather use armor even against non-optimal opponents. Like who cares if the enemy uses weapons with 100% armor damage if you have more than 20 extra levels of armor repeatables at 5% each?
 

sumpfriese

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Depending on the crisis type arc emitters are not the best, also crystal plating only, without shields might also not be the best.

Put a titan with the +10% tracking in every fleet you can as crisis use mixed ships, some of which have high evasion.

While you have extremely cost efficient to build/replace ships they will not be as efficient naval cap wise as full neutron launcher/giga cannon or specialized anti shield or anti armor battleships.

But yeah, you will 1-shot a 25x crisis. Probably were able to 50 ingame years ago^^

If you know which crisis are coming and build perfect counter to them (e.g. kinetic only vs unbidden) you can even 1-shot a 25x crisis without repeatables if you have 4-5k naval cap.
 

Nyaruko

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You should be fine once you install all the large weapon slots. Mind you, I think your alloy income is fine, but I'm usually 50x repeatables at this point. Teching a 25x crisis into oblivion is a very real option--In fact that's what I usually do dealing with all 3 crises at 25x strength. I'm not sure more alloy output would be a solution since that would involve insane amounts of planet management that will drive any micromanaging player completely mad.

Also I am not convinced of your bship layout. I know players on the forums are always harping on the hull plates, but if your tech is high enough, and you are optimizing your repeatables so you only have energy weapons and armor, you can get get so many repeatables in armor that you would rather use armor even against non-optimal opponents. Like who cares if the enemy uses weapons with 100% armor damage if you have more than 20 extra levels of armor repeatables at 5% each?
Installing more weapons/armors not just increases the building cost,also increases the maintenance cost.
My maintenance cost may quadruple if i installed all modules.
I can maintain arc only battleships with 8000 capacity,but if change to fully equipped battleships,I may only maintain 2000-4000.
 

sumpfriese

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You should be fine once you install all the large weapon slots. Mind you, I think your alloy income is fine, but I'm usually 50x repeatables at this point. Teching a 25x crisis into oblivion is a very real option--In fact that's what I usually do dealing with all 3 crises at 25x strength. I'm not sure more alloy output would be a solution since that would involve insane amounts of planet management that will drive any micromanaging player completely mad.

Also I am not convinced of your bship layout. I know players on the forums are always harping on the hull plates, but if your tech is high enough, and you are optimizing your repeatables so you only have energy weapons and armor, you can get get so many repeatables in armor that you would rather use armor even against non-optimal opponents. Like who cares if the enemy uses weapons with 100% armor damage if you have more than 20 extra levels of armor repeatables at 5% each?
Adding weapons to large slots is a terrible idea. If you use arc emitter leave the L slots empty, as ships will be killed by the arc emitters before their shield/armor has been stripped. Cloud lightning is terrible, as it can only shoot once the enemy after the enemy has come close and all your ships were anihilated.

If you dont use arc emitters however, you get about 3.5x base damage (about 5x total damage if optimized against enemy) for about 2x the price. For the same strength you will need lower naval cap and thus have less penalties going over the cap. This requires you take both repeatables for energy and kinetic damage though.

Against crisis armor/shields offer negligeble benefit as alot of their weapons just 1-shot your battleships anyways. Putting crystal plating in there and counting on the range advantage is the best strat imo.

But thats just an extra few percents you can get. Just leave the ships as they are and you will be fine.
 

GuardianGI

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Its super obvious the poster is intimately knowledgeable of the game mechanics and is just bragging at his extreme min-max effort ( 41k research at year 2343 is dead giveaway) , yet humorously everyone thinks they can still impart their "superior knowledge" onto him.

No he DOES NOT NEED ANY ALLOYS since his arc emitter battleships will almost instantly melt everything, including x25 crisis. Case in point this fleet receiving 0 damage from x25 crisis fleet.
asdasd.jpg
 
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7ED

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Adding weapons to large slots is a terrible idea. If you use arc emitter leave the L slots empty, as ships will be killed by the arc emitters before their shield/armor has been stripped. Cloud lightning is terrible, as it can only shoot once the enemy after the enemy has come close and all your ships were anihilated.

If you dont use arc emitters however, you get about 3.5x base damage (about 5x total damage if optimized against enemy) for about 2x the price. For the same strength you will need lower naval cap and thus have less penalties going over the cap. This requires you take both repeatables for energy and kinetic damage though.

Against crisis armor/shields offer negligeble benefit as alot of their weapons just 1-shot your battleships anyways. Putting crystal plating in there and counting on the range advantage is the best strat imo.

But thats just an extra few percents you can get. Just leave the ships as they are and you will be fine.
Disagree on cloud lightning. I've always found my fleets closing to melee range. And on crystal plating I just don't think thats going to get you as much value as armor given that is impacted by repeatables. In fact I don't see how its possible mathematically for you to get more out of crystal plating when you can use armor with like 60x repeatables. Thats +300% HP. As for the cost point the other poster made, not sure cost matters when you got a 2k alloy income. OP can afford to put cloud lighting on his ships if he wanted to.

Also, as to the other poster, 41k science at that date is standard for the 25x crisis so I don't know why you would assume OP is not asking for advice in good faith.
 

Strangedane

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Its super obvious the poster is intimately knowledgeable of the game mechanics and is just bragging at his extreme min-max effort ( 41k research at year 2343 is dead giveaway) , yet humorously everyone thinks they can still impart their "superior knowledge" onto him.

Stop ruining the fun.
Casuals trying to educate min-maxers is a fun read.

The 41k is a bit low tbh, but ok.

Yes, the OP is obviously ready for the x25, but this thread gives a pretty good idea of who to ignore on the forums.
Consider it public service if nothing else.
 

Nyaruko

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Its super obvious the poster is intimately knowledgeable of the game mechanics and is just bragging at his extreme min-max effort ( 41k research at year 2343 is dead giveaway) , yet humorously everyone thinks they can still impart their "superior knowledge" onto him.

No he DOES NOT NEED ANY ALLOYS since his arc emitter battleships will almost instantly melt everything, including x25 crisis. Case in point this fleet receiving 0 damage from x25 crisis fleet.
asdasd.jpg
I don't think i am bragging and i don't have enough skills to brag.
the highest difficulty of Stellaris is 5x tech cost 2250 endgame and 25x crisis,It's out of reach for me - I have so much to learn.
Stop ruining the fun.
Casuals trying to educate min-maxers is a fun read.

The 41k is a bit low tbh, but ok.

Yes, the OP is obviously ready for the x25, but this thread gives a pretty good idea of who to ignore on the forums.
Consider it public service if nothing else.
Just like he said,Compared to pros,I have nothing to brag.
 

Nyaruko

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Disagree on cloud lightning. I've always found my fleets closing to melee range. And on crystal plating I just don't think thats going to get you as much value as armor given that is impacted by repeatables. In fact I don't see how its possible mathematically for you to get more out of crystal plating when you can use armor with like 60x repeatables. Thats +300% HP. As for the cost point the other poster made, not sure cost matters when you got a 2k alloy income. OP can afford to put cloud lighting on his ships if he wanted to.

Also, as to the other poster, 41k science at that date is standard for the 25x crisis so I don't know why you would assume OP is not asking for advice in good faith.
You are right,hulls aren't repeatable.but it doesn't count into maintenance cost,nor cost alloys.
My skills are not good enough,can't have so many energy and alloys,in order to maximum my battleship counts,I have to remove armors and side weapons.

20220125101453_1.jpg


Anyways,I should able to fight now,But I still have to wait 40 years.
What endgame years do you guys recommend?
 

Strangedane

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What endgame years do you guys recommend?
2325 when playing strong builds.
2375 while playing memebuilds.

Always x25 obviously as the AI is litterally only good for their free pops and infrastructure.
 

Infin-Vec

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Can 8560 HP tank even 1 shot from the x25 crisis fleet?
If it can't, you'd better remove those crystal plating in order to further lower your T-34's price to build and maintain more.
Fire arc emitters from extra long range and try to fire another shot before crisis fleet come close is the only thing your T-34 should do.
Don't believe in fleet power, don't even think about close quarter dog fight with 25x crisis fleet.
 

sumpfriese

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Apr 16, 2021
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Disagree on cloud lightning. I've always found my fleets closing to melee range. And on crystal plating I just don't think thats going to get you as much value as armor given that is impacted by repeatables. In fact I don't see how its possible mathematically for you to get more out of crystal plating when you can use armor with like 60x repeatables. Thats +300% HP. As for the cost point the other poster made, not sure cost matters when you got a 2k alloy income. OP can afford to put cloud lighting on his ships if he wanted to.

Also, as to the other poster, 41k science at that date is standard for the 25x crisis so I don't know why you would assume OP is not asking for advice in good faith.
You have two choices: expect melee or dont. If you go into melee against 25x crisis you can expect to win 2, maybe fights before your fleet is completely wrecked from 25x crisis insane damage output. If you use the colossus range bonus and pump everything into offense you completely mitigate the crisis 25x damage boost and take 0 losses. You need a larger fleet and more techs to pull it off but its more efficient if you include replacement costs from losses in melee in the comparison. Especially vs contingency where you have to fight at least 5 large crisis fleets I consider it the better strategy.

You only have 60 armor repeatables if you actually go for them. When crisis is your only concern (talking singleplayer) going for kinetic damage repeatables will be more efficient if you dont know which crisis you are facing. In my minmax runs I like to prepare for unbidden (kinetic only loadout) and refit the ships if I see signs of another crisis: Arc emitter without cloud lightning vs contingency or energy only vs scurge. If you dont know what you are facing just go giga cannon + neutron launchers and be decent vs everything and efficient naval cap wise.

If you know from the start you are facing scurge (like set it in the game options or forcespawn) going armor + energy weapons is the best, i give you that, but its not far behind going energy weapons only. Same as going shields + kinetic only vs unbidden. I just feel going for both weapon repeatables gives you more flexibilty to counter your enemy

The most important part is (as op said) upkeep which is directly affected by alloy cost (not crystal cost though), so crystal hull plating is essentially free. While it will not block large shots, some smaller missiles, strike craft shots etc will be blocked by it. But yeah its not good for defense, its just better than nothing and free. As the "over the naval cap" is just the percentage you are over naval cap you can view it like this: if your arc emitter/crystal battleship costs 750 alloys you can go 100% over your naval and pay the same upkeep per ship as a 1500 alloy fully armed/armoured battleship costs without going over the cap so the 1500 alloy battleship needs to be alot better to be worth it. Every slot you fill for a battleship needs to be important. I would even suggest going for engines 1 to lower cost, prevent the battleship from charging in (also carrier computers are often better than artillery computers here) and use mainly jump drives for movement.

Also in my other posts I always said OP is doing fine, im just sharing my thoughts on the few percents that might still be improved.

In terms of "casuals explaining the game to minmaxers", I also consider myself a minmaxer and beat 25x 2250x crisis (earliest spawn I got was in year 2260) with only about 10k science output, so take it as you will but ive tested my share of loadouts.

If you really want to minmax to the max though, building battleships is not the way to go. Instead get menacing destroyers which can refit in 1 day to counter any crisis perfectly, cost so low upkeep you can go 4x-8x over your naval cap, have insane tracking, can evade high-range crisis shots and are easily replaced even if you lose all of them.
 
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FinbarFlin

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Apr 18, 2021
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Stop ruining the fun.
Casuals trying to educate min-maxers is a fun read.

The 41k is a bit low tbh, but ok.

Yes, the OP is obviously ready for the x25, but this thread gives a pretty good idea of who to ignore on the forums.
Consider it public service if nothing else.
Its funny to see people, who probably newer developed any kind of strategy and are just watching stephan on youtube or check out the forum for the latest OP meta... scolding casuals for trying to help other casuals... its a public service to reveal jerks like you two and watch how pathetic humans can act...
 

7ED

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You have two choices: expect melee or dont. If you go into melee against 25x crisis you can expect to win 2, maybe fights before your fleet is completely wrecked from 25x crisis insane damage output. If you use the colossus range bonus and pump everything into offense you completely mitigate the crisis 25x damage boost and take 0 losses. You need a larger fleet and more techs to pull it off but its more efficient if you include replacement costs from losses in melee in the comparison. Especially vs contingency where you have to fight at least 5 large crisis fleets I consider it the better strategy.

You only have 60 armor repeatables if you actually go for them. When crisis is your only concern (talking singleplayer) going for kinetic damage repeatables will be more efficient if you dont know which crisis you are facing. In my minmax runs I like to prepare for unbidden (kinetic only loadout) and refit the ships if I see signs of another crisis: Arc emitter without cloud lightning vs contingency or energy only vs scurge. If you dont know what you are facing just go giga cannon + neutron launchers and be decent vs everything and efficient naval cap wise.

If you know from the start you are facing scurge (like set it in the game options or forcespawn) going armor + energy weapons is the best, i give you that, but its not far behind going energy weapons only. Same as going shields + kinetic only vs unbidden. I just feel going for both weapon repeatables gives you more flexibilty to counter your enemy

The most important part is (as op said) upkeep which is directly affected by alloy cost (not crystal cost though), so crystal hull plating is essentially free. While it will not block large shots, some smaller missiles, strike craft shots etc will be blocked by it. But yeah its not good for defense, its just better than nothing and free. As the "over the naval cap" is just the percentage you are over naval cap you can view it like this: if your arc emitter/crystal battleship costs 750 alloys you can go 100% over your naval and pay the same upkeep per ship as a 1500 alloy fully armed/armoured battleship costs without going over the cap so the 1500 alloy battleship needs to be alot better to be worth it. Every slot you fill for a battleship needs to be important. I would even suggest going for engines 1 to lower cost, prevent the battleship from charging in (also carrier computers are often better than artillery computers here) and use mainly jump drives for movement.

Also in my other posts I always said OP is doing fine, im just sharing my thoughts on the few percents that might still be improved.

In terms of "casuals explaining the game to minmaxers", I also consider myself a minmaxer and beat 25x 2250x crisis (earliest spawn I got was in year 2260) with only about 10k science output, so take it as you will but ive tested my share of loadouts.

If you really want to minmax to the max though, building battleships is not the way to go. Instead get menacing destroyers which can refit in 1 day to counter any crisis perfectly, cost so low upkeep you can go 4x-8
Agree on most of this except for the melee or range point. It really depends on what kind of 25x crisis ur fighting. I prefer mid 2300s, all 3 crises at once, which is a completely different game from trying for one 25x crisis at like 2260. I don't think at that point you can just brute force ur way to a victory and crystal plating is definitely your best bet.

I don't know how you are stack wiping a 25x crisis fleet with just range x slot weapons tho. My fleets always close to melee after destroying the first round of ships. Are you just tanking the losses and building new cheap battleships? I usually tank the upkeep costs and just keep massive high-expense but high-powered fleets around.
 

HFY

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