Am I missing something or is this game just broken?

[unmerged(783066)]

So, can someone please explain the logic here or is this stuff just completely broken because it's a demo?
I figure, I'm new to this, let's just start out as Ottomans, they're massive, can't be hard right?

Starts out easy enough, conquer a couple one province countries I had cores on, and one without, which taught me the idiotic importance of stability in this game, so I manage to stomp the rebels, bring stability back, all seems good, I have a look at this new mission thing, and figure, probably a good idea to try to do one right? So I click the conquer Egypt one because it seems easier then getting some muslim mongols to like me or unite the faith.

So I make an extra army and got 45 troops on his borders while 15 stays behind to clear any peasants that try to ruin my day, because of the conquer event I assume I got cores or something on mamluk territory, as declaring war creates no instability or such.
The war is easy, crush their 20 or so troops and get to 99% warscore after sieging down half their country, I figure I need 100% to take them over completely, so I siege it all down to 100% to only find out that I just wasted my time because full annexation is impossible and despite completely destroying him I can only take a third of his empire.
Ok, kinda pisses me off, just wasted my time doubling the wartime to not even get as much land as I conquered when I got to 99%, retarded system but I guess I'll have to deal with it.

Then a couple minutes later, as I'm using my administrative power to make the things I just took into cores, the damn game just gives me the biggest middlefinger ever and tells me the peasants are pissy so I get -6! yes, minus godamn six stability out of godamn nowhere, which, due to armies still regenerating from the war and attrition from retarded vassals dumping their stacks on my rebel hunting force, way, way, outnumber my armies, only way to get rid of them is to lower taxes and give away all the land I got since starting the game. Tried waiting my way out, but with 200 men per month as reinforcement and an empty treasury from trying to fix these new provinces and the overextention the game was just over.

So, was there some magic slider I missed that doesn't give you retarded -6 stability events? Unless this is supposed to be some sort of punishment (which is a terrible way of programming a game anyway) I can't imagine what the purpose of something like this would be.
Seeing your country slowly descend into madness if you choose to not remedy it, yeah, that makes sense, you should be punished, but the Ottomans where just doing fine, crushing their enemies, gaining techs, converting heretics, and then suddenly the game goes "HAHA you lose but I'm not going to tell you why."

So did I do something wrong or is this actually what was supposed to happen and what is considered fun about this game in these parts? If so I think I know whether or not I'll be buying this title, not sure if I'll enjoy a grand strategy game where your main enemies are godamn peasants, we already get enough of that in War of the Roses anyway.

 

[Math2]

I'm sorry that you can't handle a game that doesn't go completely your way. Since I don't feel like going point by point over your whiny post, essentially the game isn't made so you can conquer the world easily. The game is modeled to be somewhat historical. If you don't like it when an empire can collapse for whatever reason, probably overextension, then you shouldn't play it

 

[NoobRage]

You probably started westernization without noticing, which automatically makes your stab -3.

 

[unmerged(783066)]

You probably started westernization without noticing, which automatically makes your stab -3.

I saw the westernization thing, made sure to not click it, it wasn't even possible to do so in the first place as Venice was only 3 techs ahead of me.

 

[mattkunz]

You probably got the event because of high overextension (having lots of uncored provinces). Past 100% overextension you get events that hurt stability, although I didn't know there was a -6 one. I should add, that overextension might not have been properly balanced for the demo yet, but I'm not sure about that.

 

[Red_warning]

Conquering a country as large as the mamluks in one go isn't something you should desire anyway, it will create big internal problems for you and stall technological progress due to the costly integration process.

 

[unmerged(783066)]

I'm sorry that you can't handle a game that doesn't go completely your way. Since I don't feel like going point by point over your whiny post, essentially the game isn't made so you can conquer the world easily. The game is modeled to be somewhat historical. If you don't like it when an empire can collapse for whatever reason, probably overextension, then you shouldn't play it

So you're just gonna whine at me like some elitist scum and claim I did something wrong without even trying to explain why?
I don't need the game to be godamn easy, but when the several hours I spent just is completely nullified by a random event there's something broken badly.

But whatever, I'm just not a high enough level masochist like you.

 

[tapewormlondon]

Doesn't sound like your type of game. It happens. The game as someone mentioned above is not designed so you can take swarthes of land at a whim.

 

[masteriw]

So you're just gonna whine at me like some elitist scum and claim I did something wrong without even trying to explain why?
I don't need the game to be godamn easy, but when the several hours I spent just is completely nullified by a random event there's something broken badly.

But whatever, I'm just not a high enough level masochist like you.

The event was probably triggered by your high overextension as other people had said, I don't think -6 stability events can happen without any trigger...

 

[Felicity]

I'm sorry that you can't handle a game that doesn't go completely your way. Since I don't feel like going point by point over your whiny post, essentially the game isn't made so you can conquer the world easily. The game is modeled to be somewhat historical. If you don't like it when an empire can collapse for whatever reason, probably overextension, then you shouldn't play it

Heesh you should have really doublechecked this before posting it. It's pretty obvious the OP just doesn't understand overextension, which is understandable. It's a new mechanic, and especially strange for people who don't play paradox/gsg games much.

As others have said you suffered from overextension; understandably if you annex an entire country in one go you're going to have issues keeping hold of it, when it wasn't your land to begin with. It's much better to eat in increments, or prepare for the inevitable empire crumbling from overdoing your conquest.

Pretty much you gotta play a couple more games to understand your limits and what is doable and what isn't. EU and other games in the similar vein are all learning games; no tutorial or guide can truly make you understand the game until it just clicks.

 

[Dr. Dan]

So, can someone please explain the logic here or is this stuff just completely broken because it's a demo?
I figure, I'm new to this, let's just start out as Ottomans, they're massive, can't be hard right?

Probably the easiest nation in the game outside of France.

Starts out easy enough, conquer a couple one province countries I had cores on, and one without, which taught me the idiotic importance of stability in this game, so I manage to stomp the rebels, bring stability back, all seems good, I have a look at this new mission thing, and figure, probably a good idea to try to do one right? So I click the conquer Egypt one because it seems easier then getting some muslim mongols to like me or unite the faith.

Why is it idiotically important? It makes sense that rebellions are dependent on the stability of your country, yah? Good choice to conquer Egypt.

So I make an extra army and got 45 troops on his borders while 15 stays behind to clear any peasants that try to ruin my day, because of the conquer event I assume I got cores or something on mamluk territory, as declaring war creates no instability or such.
The war is easy, crush their 20 or so troops and get to 99% warscore after sieging down half their country, I figure I need 100% to take them over completely, so I siege it all down to 100% to only find out that I just wasted my time because full annexation is impossible and despite completely destroying him I can only take a third of his empire.
Ok, kinda pisses me off, just wasted my time doubling the wartime to not even get as much land as I conquered when I got to 99%, retarded system but I guess I'll have to deal with it.

This is just new to you. Now you know that going beyond 99-100% warscore isn't worth the effort. Full annexation in a war against a massive empire, I would argue, would be a "retarded system". Furthermore, the overextension penalties from such a conquest would likely ruin you even more!

Then a couple minutes later, as I'm using my administrative power to make the things I just took into cores, the damn game just gives me the biggest middlefinger ever and tells me the peasants are pissy so I get -6! yes, minus godamn six stability out of godamn nowhere, which, due to armies still regenerating from the war and attrition from retarded vassals dumping their stacks on my rebel hunting force, way, way, outnumber my armies, only way to get rid of them is to lower taxes and give away all the land I got since starting the game. Tried waiting my way out, but with 200 men per month as reinforcement and an empty treasury from trying to fix these new provinces and the overextention the game was just over.

Gotta admit, I laughed. That event would piss me off too. That's a lot of negative stability - I'm curious to see the event.

So, was there some magic slider I missed that doesn't give you retarded -6 stability events? Unless this is supposed to be some sort of punishment (which is a terrible way of programming a game anyway) I can't imagine what the purpose of something like this would be.
Seeing your country slowly descend into madness if you choose to not remedy it, yeah, that makes sense, you should be punished, but the Ottomans where just doing fine, crushing their enemies, gaining techs, converting heretics, and then suddenly the game goes "HAHA you lose but I'm not going to tell you why."

Yeah, no idea what that event is. It does seem broken, though it's hard to say without seeing the circumstances myself.

So did I do something wrong or is this actually what was supposed to happen and what is considered fun about this game in these parts? If so I think I know whether or not I'll be buying this title, not sure if I'll enjoy a grand strategy game where your main enemies are godamn peasants, we already get enough of that in War of the Roses anyway.

That event can't be common as I've played the Ottos like 4 times now. Outside of the event, though, you seemed to be doing fine. Once you learn the ups and downs, it's pretty fun.

 

[unmerged(610709)]

First of all you come over as an extremely obnoxious and entitled person in your post. Calling certain mechanics retarded wont encourage others to elaborate on them; quite the opposite really.

Anyway, the game is designed so that quick expansion is checked. Wars shouldn't be so decisive so that you can annex an entire empire such as the mamluks in one go.
For every province which you conquer, without having a core in it, you get an overextension penalty related to the province's base tax. The higher your overextension, the more problems you get.

Although, the event dropping your stability to -6 is odd. As said before in this thread, i only think you get that after westernizing.

 

[unmerged(783066)]

Conquering a country as large as the mamluks in one go isn't something you should desire anyway, it will create big internal problems for you and stall technological progress due to the costly integration process.

Considering this happened historically in less time then I even did it (I think it took like 3 years to occupy all tiles, while in reality it was 2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Mamluk_War_(1516–1517) ) and only about 15 years after I did it, and it also was a damn mission I figured it would be a good idea.
But I guess the game is just more difficult then reality then? As I'm pretty sure the Ottomans didn't emediatly give their lands back because the people where rebelling so hard (if they did so at all).

 

[Mendeth]

The limits to annexations were introduced a bit after vanilla EuIII, if I remember correctly, as it was far too easy at the time to conquer the world.

Stability is not 'idiotic', it's there to represent domestic strife/unrest, which can be caused for a number of reasons. Your populace may not be pleased by you going around conquering their neighbours willy nilly, after all it doesn't indicate due attention to domestic affairs.

I haven't played the demo myself so I can't comment on the -6 stab hit but it certainly sounds to have been related to your belligerence. As a couple of people have said, the stability mechanic is designed to make players think twice about their actions; it offers potential consequences and ensures the need for caution. From your post, it seems this (and other PDS games) might not be for you

 

[Felicity]

The game isn't necessarily historical(it becomes ahistorical the moment you go one day), but I can understand your complaint.

I was also looking through the events and couldn't find one that gives -6 stab. This is the only relevant one:

# Widespread Opposition
country_event = {
	id = overextension.2
	title = "EVTNAME749"
	desc = "EVTDESC749"
	picture = DEBATE_REPUBLICAN_eventPicture
	
	trigger = {
		stability = -2
	}

	is_triggered_only = yes
	mean_time_to_happen = {
		days = 1
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA749"
		add_stability = -1

 

[safe-keeper]

What I like about these forums is that people tend to be incredibly constructive, and that posts with the OP's attitude are thankfully rare .

Havins said that, let's get down to business:

So, can someone please explain the logic here or is this stuff just completely broken because it's a demo?

The Paradox-produced 4X games tend to be incredibly complex and as such often take some post-release polishing to get right. Also consider there's only so much in-house testing you can do, and that once released, the game is essentially thrown into a kind of "mass peer review". Many, or perhaps all, of their games are like this; I figure you might be new to this.

I figure, I'm new to this, let's just start out as Ottomans, they're massive, can't be hard right?

Oh. You are.

Starts out easy enough, conquer a couple one province countries I had cores on, and one without, which taught me the idiotic importance of stability in this game, so I manage to stomp the rebels, bring stability back, all seems good, I have a look at this new mission thing, and figure, probably a good idea to try to do one right? So I click the conquer Egypt one because it seems easier then getting some muslim mongols to like me or unite the faith.

The one thing that jumped out at me about your rather lengthy sentence (you might want to include a full stop or two in a paragraph) is your comment on the stability system. How is it idiotic? What part about it bothers you? Shouldn't stability to incredibly important to a nation?

The war is easy, crush their 20 or so troops and get to 99% warscore after sieging down half their country, I figure I need 100% to take them over completely, so I siege it all down to 100% to only find out that I just wasted my time because full annexation is impossible and despite completely destroying him I can only take a third of his empire. Ok, kinda pisses me off, just wasted my time doubling the wartime to not even get as much land as I conquered when I got to 99%, retarded system but I guess I'll have to deal with it.

Again -- how is this approach "retarded"? This isn't Civilization or Age of Empires II. I don't know much about history, but I don't know if it was doable with contemporary technology to just suddenly be in charge of huge new areas from one day to the next. Not sure if I would even find it too much fun if you could annex at will anyways, as it'd make it way too easy for a single powerhouse to suddenly rule half the world, not to mention that being on the defending end of a larger empire would become a nightmare.

Then a couple minutes later, as I'm using my administrative power to make the things I just took into cores, the damn game just gives me the biggest middlefinger ever and tells me the peasants are pissy so I get -6! yes, minus godamn six stability out of godamn nowhere

Odd, but perhaps a result of your ridiculous land-grabbing. Since infamy isn't in the game anymore, this might be one of EUIV's answers to the consequences of crossing the Infamy limit in EU3.

, which, due to armies still regenerating from the war and attrition from retarded vassals dumping their stacks on my rebel hunting force, way, way, outnumber my armies, only way to get rid of them is to lower taxes and give away all the land I got since starting the game. Tried waiting my way out, but with 200 men per month as reinforcement and an empty treasury from trying to fix these new provinces and the overextention the game was just over.

Pity.

So, was there some magic slider I missed that doesn't give you retarded -6 stability events?

Yes. If you set your "Civil and Polite" slider on the forums to -20 as you have, you will run into this kind of devastating messages in-game. C'est das Leben.


PS: another theory, which seems more likely now that WeissRaben couldn't find the event you're talking about in the demo's files, is that you've pirated the full version of EUIV and run afoul of a pirate-catching system.

 

[unmerged(783066)]

First of all you come over as an extremely obnoxious and entitled person in your post. Calling certain mechanics retarded wont encourage others to elaborate on them; quite the opposite really.

Anyway, the game is designed so that quick expansion is checked. Wars shouldn't be so decisive so that you can annex an entire empire such as the mamluks in one go.
For every province which you conquer, without having a core in it, you get an overextension penalty related to the province's base tax. The higher your overextension, the more problems you get.

Although, the event dropping your stability to -6 is odd. As said before in this thread, i only think you get that after westernizing.

Yeah well, apart from you and that first replier whining at me people do seem to be giving me the information I need, so keep your opinions about my tone to yourself, as evidently you're wrong.
Historically the Mamluks where annexed in one go, but alas, I understand you need to go slow with this here, even though in my game I only took a third of their empire, as I wasn't even capable of taking more.

And I did not westernize, I'm really damn sure about that, it wasn't even possible due to aforementioned Venetians, this was an event where peasants where calling for reforms I never even knew they wanted.

 

[Red_warning]

Yeah it's true, expansions is a lot harder in this iteration.But tbh, I like this better, it was too easy to blob in EUIII.

 

[WeissRaben]

The game isn't necessarily historical(it becomes ahistorical the moment you go one day), but I can understand your complaint.

I was also looking through the events and couldn't find one that gives -6 stab. This is the only relevant one:

# Widespread Opposition
country_event = {
	id = overextension.2
	title = "EVTNAME749"
	desc = "EVTDESC749"
	picture = DEBATE_REPUBLICAN_eventPicture
	
	trigger = {
		stability = -2
	}

	is_triggered_only = yes
	mean_time_to_happen = {
		days = 1
	}

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA749"
		add_stability = -1

Peasants' War, lads. No one recognized it?

 

[Stratagyfan101]

So did I do something wrong or is this actually what was supposed to happen and what is considered fun about this game in these parts? If so I think I know whether or not I'll be buying this title, not sure if I'll enjoy a grand strategy game where your main enemies are godamn peasants, we already get enough of that in War of the Roses anyway.

Most likely overextension. The event was triggered because you, more than likely, added 30% more land to your country in one go with no cores. Not to mention you're Empire ismade up of numerous cultures and two religions.