Am I missing something? Is morale recovery speed really that good?

[beckermt]

I'd be more inclined to take recovery buffs if morale & reinforcement ticked daily; as-is the outcome is often determined by whether or not you get an end-of-month tick, not by how much the tick is.

You need to learn to flee battles at such a time to get said ticks. You should very rarely allow your armies to shatter and flee across the entire land. A strategic retreat, near month's end, into better territory (for -0.5 warscore) benefits greatly from improved moral recovery.

 

[GrafKeks]

Yeah, but with the way the percentages work, +5pp (percentage points) discipline is between a 5% increase or LESS, if your discipline is already above 100%. The 5pp morale recovery is a 33% increase at base, which also decreases if you have other bonuses to morale recovery. In enemy territoy, recovering 33% extra morale per tick is a big deal.

The relation to the base is in the case of discipline not really important, each pp above your enemy makes you increasingly stronger as it both increases dmg and decreases losses. Generals and discipline top everything else.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The relation to the base is in the case of discipline not really important, each pp above your enemy makes you increasingly stronger as it both increases dmg and decreases losses. Generals and discipline top everything else.

Neither of those things top tactics.

Discipline does not belong in the same sentence as generals. A 15% discipline advantage (and you need to invest very heavily to get it) gets trashed by a disadvantage in generals of 3 or more. Doing 15% more damage and taking 15% less just doesn't feel that meaningful when the opponent is doing a base of 2-3x the casualties you are.

Discipline isn't meaningless of course, but it won't have much until you have similar or better generals, same with tactics vs discipline.

Discipline is more in the "morale" territory, though between those 2 I prefer morale in single player because it makes it easier to assault enemy forts.

 

[Thrake]

Sometimes, after a tough fight, I try to follow a routing stack to try and engage (hopefully whipe it out). Sometimes it works, but sometimes, morale is too low to engage again so I just leave it be. Then faster morale recovery would have helped and allowed to whipe the ennemy. There are also those times where I've just beaten an ennemy stack and get engaged by another quickly after; again, recovery helps. Overall, it allows for more agressive strategy where you can harass the ennemy much more easily and need less rest after tough fights. Now, wether or not it's worth 1 MIL per month, that's questionnable given the other available bonuses. I wouldn't say it's useless though. That probably depends on the available policies at the moment.

 

[Arumba]

I feel like analyzing the value of a policy on a per month bases makes it *feel* more expensive than it really is. The question I usually ask myself is "Would I click a button that says 'Spend 120 military points for 10 years of X bonus'". Generally speaking, that feels like a good deal almost *always*. Especially because I tend to avoid paying ahead of time penalties on technology (unless the tech level is essential to an upcoming or current war) in favor of more tangible benefits, like harsh treatment, assaulting, forced marching, buildings.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I feel like analyzing the value of a policy on a per month bases makes it *feel* more expensive than it really is. The question I usually ask myself is "Would I click a button that says 'Spend 120 military points for 10 years of X bonus'". Generally speaking, that feels like a good deal almost *always*. Especially because I tend to avoid paying ahead of time penalties on technology (unless the tech level is essential to an upcoming or current war) in favor of more tangible benefits, like harsh treatment, assaulting, forced marching, buildings.

Once you get over whatever emotional barriers there are associated, it's still the same issue. In SP, this isn't even close to worth the cost, and it will be rarely worthwhile in MP also, due to how combat works.

This policy will cost you 24 garrison assaults, more than 2 general re-rolls (and remember, pips are second only to a tactics boost in terms of combat utility), 1/4 of an idea, or if you're really rich maybe even a permanent 4+ force limit and a significant boost in manpower.

It's not taking a tech ahead of years that it gets compared to, but generally superior alternative policies or most other point expenditures. In the vast majority of cases I'd rather just reroll for a good general at high tradition 2 more times, getting 1-2 extra 5/6 type generals or even a shot at them carries a lot more utility over 10 years than recovering morale 1-2 months faster when it's depleted, especially when you're at a point in the game when you can afford to keep maintenance full with +3 advisors, which is around when such policies are even possible.

 

[LastSalian]

Those who used to play Timurid / Mughals before 1.5 will remember how OP morale recovery is. Yet another unnecessary nerf to RTOW (Timurids / Mughals).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Those who used to play Timurid / Mughals before 1.5 will remember how OP morale recovery is. Yet another unnecessary nerf to RTOW (Timurids / Mughals).

I always thought (and still do even now) that generic horde ideas are better, arguably the best regional generic set in the game.

 

[Achanei]

This policy will cost you 24 garrison assaults, more than 2 general re-rolls (and remember, pips are second only to a tactics boost in terms of combat utility), 1/4 of an idea, or if you're really rich maybe even a permanent 4+ force limit and a significant boost in manpower.

It's not taking a tech ahead of years that it gets compared to, but generally superior alternative policies or most other point expenditures.

This is the exact argument that shows how underpowered policies are - especially considering that miltech is by far the most abundant MP in a singleplayer game. The only policies of the adm/dip groups i find occasionally useful are the extra colonist and the -10% coring cost / -15% diplo annexation cost ones. everything else is not worth the MP investment, especially all those trade related ones that will simply increase income by a fraction, at a time where you mostly run on +3 advisors anyways.

 

[Beagá]

And this is kind of what I mean. For that same 1 MIL/month I can get +5% discipline. Why would I ever pick morale recovery?

Many policies are crap and are crap for months already. Better not worry that much and pick something better.

 

[LastSalian]

I always thought (and still do even now) that generic horde ideas are better, arguably the best regional generic set in the game.

True. Before 1.6, I was under the impression Timurids got worse traditions and national ideas because they could reform easier. Since 1.6 I can't make sense of it. Anyhow, pre-1.6-Timurids was just an example of how OP morale recovery is; don't remember if it was +25% or how much, though.

 

[Dustman]

True. Before 1.6, I was under the impression Timurids got worse traditions and national ideas because they could reform easier. Since 1.6 I can't make sense of it. Anyhow, pre-1.6-Timurids was just an example of how OP morale recovery is; don't remember if it was +25% or how much, though.

+10%, almost doubling. But even now their ideas are great, with huge tolerance boost to heathens and nice core creation cost reduction from day one.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

+10%, almost doubling. But even now their ideas are great, with huge tolerance boost to heathens and nice core creation cost reduction from day one.

Yeah Timmy ideas are pretty good too, one of the better ROTW packages. I just like stock horde better, as stock horde also has great traditions (-5 years of nationalism *and* no extra ducat cost to reinforce, be it mercs or regulars). Early in the game you can run merc infantry stacks around over supply limit with minimal worry, merrily loot spam people at 2x returns, and come out with provinces + more money than you started with. Eventually, your mercs die in utility unless you reform, but it's a long time before that happens if you keep up in tech + supplement some cavalry regulars.

If you're into some lulzy obnoxious stuff, grab a stack of exiled mercs and wander over to an AI stack and camp on it. Burn their manpower + make them pay reinforcement costs, while you do neither of those things.