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mrt1212

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Basically time and time again I fall into a rut where I go long on seniority as soon as possible and then build up a dynasty that is as large as possible scooping up titles as I go and handing out excess ones to placate the patiently waiting. As a French Catholic most the time, sometimes Spanish Catholic when I'm feeling frisky.

I find it pretty fun all things considered and the biggest downsides as far as I've encountered are the following:

1. Dud Heirs. Somehow their gross incompetence didnt prevent them living for 60+ years. Kinslayer and known murderer are messy ways to deal with it.

2. Short reigns and lots of council discontent. Sometimes you'll get a nice 8 to 10 year run out of the player character other times you'll turn over 3 kings in 3 months.

3. Running into loss of titles for inherited kingdoms/duchies when the inheritance laws differ. Can't be overcome easily due to the vassal opinion/10 year reign to change laws.

4. Potentially awful unbreakable incest. When half your betrothal options are dynasty members and you need 2 NAPs to keep the factions small, some dubious choices can be made. And then your PC up and dies and you can't or won't undo those previous betrothals. Even worse when the NPCs are doing this themselves.

5. The impermanence of NAPs from ruler to ruler. All those grandchildren betrothals don't count for squat when the new rulers is part of the dynasty that is halfway across the dynasty tree. You have a conflict of wanting to spread the seed of the dynasty to every corner scooping up titles with your sons and grandsons from countesses and duchesses while also keeping some in the tank to keep the faction heat off your back.

6. Inability to generate children for NAPs unless they've become a widower at some point in their mid 40s. Sometimes you get a genteel old couple that produced a bunch of adult children who wanted nothing to do with kids.

7. Completely unwieldy kingdoms - you can easily go over demesne and vassal limits without good options to transfer vassals or grant landed titles. Your kingdoms might have a base of power but then have far flung counties or duchies that take months to get to if someone comes knocking on the castle door. All those inhereted titles and vassals creates a weird patchwork over time.

8. Your capital might transfer to an inferior county and might be stuck there if the power change happens during a protracted war. Only happens if the heir has a title equal to your own.

9. The Dynasty Tree view isn't large enough.

The upsides are fun though -

1. You'll rarely run into a situation where the game could be over with a few inopportune deaths.

2. You can yield to factions that want to put a kinsman in Kingdom power only to have them croak before changing succession laws thus putting you back into power. Kind of a release valve on hairy situations. Also, you'll get to fight and pillage any faction who wants to change council power which can be nice.

3. Early Mercenary Band push. Early in the game you can reap a huge windfall by putting your 4th or 5th in line in charge of a merc company and maintianing good relations with them. Finally when they take over they'll have a fat purse to play with which can help a protracted war or rebellion or simply getting a jump on building a new holding.

4. Endless matchmaking opportunities with influential countesses and duchesses. This style could be rebranded as a vague Fiddler on the Roof mini game. I actually use all of the 'saved search' slots for the character finder.

5. The satisfaction of knowing your dynasty has made it when they unexpectedly show up as Kings and Queens of places you never imagined.

6. Pope Shenanigans! Having a dynasty member as Pope can sometimes help get a crucial divorce over and done with and sometimes even more. The more dynasty sons with no landed future that exist in the world, the more likely some of them wind up in the clergy pulling strings from a different POV.

7. Wonderful Incest! Sometimes going Appalachian can lock down a few titles for generations to come.

I know everyone has their own wrinkle on playing the game but I really enjoy this one just for the breadth of experience at my fingertips.
 

Bernard95

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I wouldn't say seniority is crazy. While it's definitely not going to be quick and you'll have plenty of dud rulers, eventually everything is going to end up consolidated and dynastic prestige is going to go through the roof. That's like a perfect storm if you're big on the marriage game, since the AI will be more willing to accept your marriage proposals with high dynastic prestige and things are only going to snowball.
 

Lord_P

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Mmmm, bananas :p

Oh, the post? TL;DR
It's not that long and the post is divided into easily readable lists. Isn't it nice when the first poster goes to a thread, skims the entire OP and then brags about how he didn't read it. If you really want a TL;DR then let me provide one for you:

"Seniority has upsides and downsides, but I like it."

I mean no offense, but what you did was pretty poor.
 

AlexArgos

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I also didn't read the post (sorry :oops:) so I'll just give my general opinion about Seniority:

I like it a lot when the dynasty is relatively small (and you're trying to get out of gavelkind or consolidate a fractured realm). But later on, when the dynasty members spread to many foreign courts, it becomes too much of a hassle.

Unless you go on a murder spree, you're faced with an endless line of very old dudes. So while their reign is short, they're so many that it still takes forever to get to anyone good before they also grow old (the consequence of that is that the older the rulers get the more unlikely it becomes they'll live long enough to be able to change the succession law).

But my biggest gripe is the foreign cultures. After a point in the game, most seniority rulers come from foreign courts so have a foreign culture. This can be addressed with the RoI decisions but not before the cultural buildings disappear because of the culture change. If they 'fix' that feature (the disappearing buildings), I'm sure seniority will become more useful/popular.

As a last note I would say that if a playstyle/law/strategy/whatever works for you and lets you have fun in the game, then just enjoy and don't fret whether you play the 'right' way or not. :D:cool:
 

EviLine

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It's not that long and the post is divided into easily readable lists. Isn't it nice when the first poster goes to a thread, skims the entire OP and then brags about how he didn't read it. If you really want a TL;DR then let me provide one for you:

"Seniority has upsides and downsides, but I like it."

I mean no offense, but what you did was pretty poor.

LOL. I did read it, but I felt obligated to make a scumbag post, cos of the title.
 

Starcomet

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In my current and only Ironman game, I had to switch to Seniority to prevent myself from losing the game. My daughter's son was not of my dynasty and even after I killed him, another non-dynasty nephew to another daughter was heir to the Roman Empire. I had to quickly change to prevent that. Now while I may have a large dynasty (140ish living members), It is hard to reinstate primogeniture. The born in purple and despot honorary title can help me get someone young to jump ahead of the line of succession, but then the old heads will start plotting his downfall.

And it is getting harder to keep the council happy since with frequent deaths they can go discontent more often and start forming factions.
 
Last edited:

Brightgalrs

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One of my best playthroughs was like this. My dynasty got so large that I was always playing as a 80+ year old who would last for only a few months. This made it possible to mass revoke titles, and distribute them out to dynasty members, dying before anyone could get mad at me. And it snowballed out of control. When I stopped playing (game was slowing down quite a bit) my dynasty had a few thousand members.

That was a while ago though, before "opinion of predecessor" and whatever character culling they have now.
 

mrt1212

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So one added wrinkle to Positive Point 2:

So you can also benefit from factions that would put dynastic claimants in charge of whatever kingdom:

1. Find a childless sibling-less claimant to Title X
2. Start a faction around that claimant
3. Install them, eventually, hopefully
4. Wait for them to kick the bucket and have Title X pass to you, the senior most member of the dynasty, for lack of better alternatives.

In my current game (which is about 1300s after a sprawling 6 century run) I have that exact setup in place with the Kingdom of France - dynastic member with no suitable heir who rose to power through factionalism AND have a similar plot for that in the works with Francia. It takes the right timing and a successful revolt for the trap to spring but being the oldest member of a dynasty does have some pretty cool inheritance implications on the right people.
 
Last edited:

TheDungen

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I usually go seniority for a while in the early game, let's me get out of gavelkind and also means my entire dynasty gets claim on the primary title over time, then I go elective, since the having claims means they are eligible to be elected meaning because I had seniority first I have a much larger pool to elect from.
 

mrt1212

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Another thing to add in. Inheriting other kingdoms can really really really throw things off -

I had the misfortune of having the King of France, my oldest dynastic heir, inherit my 7 kingdom (Aquitaine, Navarra, Galacia, Wales, Britagne, Frisea, Austrasia), 2 duchy, 11 demesne setup. He was a scrub ass king to say the least. My demesne shot up 12 which wasn't terrible (I was 3 over the limit and handed out the 12th title to the 4th in line) but the 37 vassals - 22 over the limit - was terrible. Combine with having the King of France being at the tail end of a losing Holy War for Toledo. Basically I was bankrupt -1000 Florins or Corinths or whatever the currency is a month into the power change. My Retinues became completely unreinforcable and factions went through the roof - like 300% max and average around 200%. I was incurring -50 opinion penalties for raised vassal levies! It was terrible!

Two things saved the game from factions ripping me apart though:

Less Important - 1. The Kingdom of France and Pomerania were set to be lost to Gavelkind upon death of the King of France while the 7 Kingdoms were passed via seniority. Most of the faction vassals were in those two Kingdoms. Unfortunately this incompetent jerk didn't have any son to pass off France and Pomerania off to so I was kinda stuck until the next King who did have two sons. This would help down the line.

Integral - 2. Realm Peace by the Emperor gave me a window to set up the heir to the 7 Kingdoms to be a 18 Stewardship badass through an assasins arrow/snake/carriage. He declared that like a couple of months into the reign of Frenchie de Suckitude. Seriously, this was absolutely huge and allowed me to dig out of the hole created by the lost Holy War ever so slightly with getting paid for favors, borrowing money from Jewish merchants, and a few special events.

I wasn't out of the woods yet though. Between the lout French King and an the aformentioned savior was a pretty average guy. So when the Average Dude finally did inherit about 3 years into the realm peace it was a tense period of time hoping the savior would live long enough to inherit and average guy would bite it. And that's just what happened. About a year into his reign he kicked it and 18 Stewardship took over.

And the game broke completely open. Instead of treading water on retinue replacements I was able to fully reinforce them. My demesne levies shot up to 16k and Vassal up to 18k since I was at 11/11 for demesne and 22/22 for vassal limit. Monthly income to 100+. Oh and I was able to finally force elective monarchy for the Empire of Francia which I probably won't enjoy with the 18 Stewardship badass since he's old old and the Emperor is young and I don't have the votes. But that's fine, those jabronis will just keep it warm for a while. I have a 5k treasury, time and heir pool on my side. Most of the Kings of Francia are part of my dynasty at the moment.

Truly though, beware of the implications of a powerful but incompetent heir bringing their haul to the table during an inheritence. It nearly ruined what has been an epic game. If it hadn't been for a Realm Peace I may have truly been screwed with every single Kingdom reverting to Gavelkind. It took some real grinding, a healthy dose of benevolent luck, and praying to pull this one out of the fire but I did it!

And experiences like the one above are why I'll be coming back to the well often! Fill me to the brim with political drama!