Alternatives to Ascension

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

I think that that makes no sense, I'd be in favor of a Synthetic FE as an alternate form of Materialist Fallen Empires(indeed more flavors of FEs would be nice in general), but not as a replacement to the current anti-AI one(my head cannon for them is that they date back to the time of the Cybrix precursor event chain and that's the reason for their attitude).

The hypocrisy of it all appeals to me. Particularly since I plan on scrapping those sanctimonious rust buckets and getting my 'ring world' the old fashioned way.

 

[Felfox]

You mean they are beyond "trivial" things, such as expanding thier borders. Viewing the non-Ascended newcommers (in particular those guys that use to be Pre-FTL) as more then a fleeting curiosity. And generally behaving like a Fallen Empire does?

Ascension in the cosmic sense means no longer being trapped by the laws of nature and reality. It's about unlocking the secrets of the universe and being on part with a god. You no longer exist in the regular world because you are greater than it. A Fallen Empire either gave up or got stuck trying, a true fully ascended species either becomes part of the universe or departs in some form or function because they've learnt all there is and are now going to explore beyond reality.

And another version of ascendance is acknowledging that your flawed, constrained form IS perfect. You could argue that ascending into a perfect form is the path to a Fallen Empire because once "perfect", what is there to strive against, to strive for? A species can understand that their imperfections are a boon to drive them to accomplishment within their individually limited spans.

While accepting your faults is the path to spiritual growth, it is not ascension in the cosmic sense. A species that has ascended does not stick around, it doesn't live in the cosmos forever after discovering everything because then it's just a stagnating cancer leaching resources other species could be using to advance.

Please understand that when I say fully ascended, I mean you are 100% perfect and you know everything you possibly could about the current universe you exist in. The universe as it exists isn't the end for these species, they want to learn about after death, about the sub-atomic, about the multiverse and about what started/came before our universe. Ascension means leaving this plain of existence behind because the toughest questions can only be answered at the next level.

I get what you're saying but yes, acknowleging your faults is the first step to enlightenment/ascension but it it's a long road before you can ascend. Being perfect is the final and hardest step to ascend because there is nothing left to do but figure out how to do basically the impossible. A fallen empire is an empire that has basically learned perfection but still had no clue what to do and now just sits on their thumbs.

 

[Azuraal]

Ascension in the cosmic sense means no longer being trapped by the laws of nature and reality. It's about unlocking the secrets of the universe and being on part with a god. You no longer exist in the regular world because you are greater than it. A Fallen Empire either gave up or got stuck trying, a true fully ascended species either becomes part of the universe or departs in some form or function because they've learnt all there is and are now going to explore beyond reality.

But other name for fallen empire is stagnant ascendancy (their goverment type), which means that they DID ascend, in the meaning of the word uses by stellaris.
I understand ascenson in stellaris as reaching a technological and cultural plateau, when further advancement is either impossible or not needed,
this causes civilization to stagnate and distance themselves with rest of the universe thinking they are above it all.

Besides, do you have any reason to think that's the case in stellairs other than your understanding of the word?

 

[The Founder]

stagnant ascendancy

I think that means a Ascendancy as the Government form.
Same way there might be a Democracy, Monarchy, Meritocracy. Apparently in Stellaris "Ascendancy" measn a wierd form of Government that tends towards getting Stagnant.
The ecological definiton might fit it rather well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascendency

 

[Felfox]

But other name for fallen empire is stagnant ascendancy (their goverment type), which means that they DID ascend, in the meaning of the word uses by stellaris.
I understand ascenson in stellaris as reaching a technological and cultural plateau, when further advancement is either impossible or not needed,
this causes civilization to stagnate and distance themselves with rest of the universe thinking they are above it all.

Besides, do you have any reason to think that's the case in stellairs other than your understanding of the word?

I will grant that my argument in this debate is grounded more in the philosophical sense rather than what it means for a game. As the poster above me mentions, the name probably references the type of government that the empire is under rather than saying they ascended.

I'm probably getting too hung but I find it facinching. The Paradox devs are free to do whatever they want after all, however ascension is usually pretty universally viewed as someone gaining a higher understanding of the universe that their previous self was unable to accomplish. Be this monks seeking nervana or obi-wan letting himself be killed or the Chozo of metroid all spontaneously vanishing from the cosmos.

When you ascend, you don't need your body anymore, reality itself holds no more secrets.

But this is a game and it doesn't just end when you get the final ascension perk so really the entire tree is more hinting that your species is trying to move on but hasn't just yet.

 

[Cat Crusade]

Fanatic egalitarian synth makes a ton of sense. "All citizens will have exactly the same abilities. Nobody will be inferior or superior to anyone!" I suppose you could do the same with bio ascension.

though I guess leaders with different stats sort of mitigates against it.

That would beat the purpose of having a synthetic ascension in the first place. If the process changes everyone's mental capabilities, personalities and memories to be the same then there would be good argument it is not the same people before and after the ascension, kind of ruining the point.