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Azhcristokos

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Ascension paths definitely do not look required, especially not in single player. Actually, in multiplayer, skilled players (so not me) could probably devise ways to easily outmaneuver those who delay getting new perks 'cause they're saving up for the ascension path ones.

Totally going for biological mastery though.
 

Emraldis

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those who delay getting new perks
What do you mean? You don't have to delay any more than a normal person who isn't going for ascension perks...
 

Sheriff Godwin Law

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EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong but level one synth AP immediately turns all POPs into cyborgs? Seems kind of drastic, maybe it should say some of you POPs are beginning to experiment with cybernetics?

I talked about this a little earlier. Ascension is a cultural movement, not really a scientific one. You do it when you've used enough "unity" resource generated by harmony in your empire and government buildings to fill a tradition tree. Then, so long as you have discovered droid tech through your actual research your people can adopt cybernetics in a wide scale. "Your people" decide to do this, via whatever decision method is standard for your government, when you as the player selects the first tier of the Synthetic Ascension tree.

Maybe your scientific class has been adopting cybernetics on an experimental level, or maybe a wealthy upper class has been adopting cybernetics at great material cost, whatever the lead-up, ascension rank one represents cybernetics becoming the societal default.
 

Foefaller

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What do you mean? You don't have to delay any more than a normal person who isn't going for ascension perks...

In the livestream where they were showing off Psionic Ascension, it looked like Wiz was able to hold off taking his first ascension perk until he had finished a second tradition and unlocked the second Tier of perks, and then used both choices on Tier 2 perks.

Considering most (if not all) of the dev diary stuff -including the Ascension paths and Megastructures- require at least 2 traditions finished to start, it would make holding off on your first perk a possible strategy to unlock more of the higher tier stuff, both sooner and in total.
 

Deathshead419

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I was tossing around a similar idea last night:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-path-of-reaction.1002646/#post-22491697

Having seen the three ascension paths, it occurred to me that not ever pop in an empire, nor even every empire itself, would want to pursue them. In every age and in ever population there have been those who resist progress for the sake of suspicion of the new and different. So what if every advancement was met with opposition from Reactionaries?

Perhaps they could make up a faction in one’s empire that had to be dealt with. One thought is that it would be stronger in fringe worlds, further from the persuasive power of the heavily populated core worlds, and grow with the pace of advancements.

If you go too far, too fast, then they might revolt.

You would be able to deal with them through a verity of methods, such as persuasion, expulsion, or violent repression. If the reactionaries win power, then they would start undoing your advancements or even spark a civil war. One step further would be to hint in the events that a similar movement undercut and ended the advancement of the Fallen Empires.

And finally, if an empire rejects all three paths, deciding to keep their clunky, error riddled biological forms and ignore their psionic potential, they’d go down a fourth path, that of Reaction. Not sure what the perks should be, since this is basically your empire rejecting all of the perks offered by the three paths and choosing to remain stuck in the past, so to speak.

Though once idea is unique options with Fallen Empires (?).

I don’t know, except that I want to do a play through as a bunch of stubborn luddites shouting at the ascending species to stay off their lawn.
 

Surimi

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From a pure research standpoint maybe. But with your bonuses to gene modifying, you can also tweak loyal populations to different habitat tolerances to fill in those Alpines you couldn't colonize before.

Or, you could take One Vision and convert a few alpine dwelling aliens into loyal citizens.

Or, you could take voidborn, ignore those alpine worlds and live in space instead.

Like, it makes sense that ascension perks have more flavour and thus are more attractive than just getting a generic bonus, but the generic bonuses are seriously good. Like, based on the speed at which perks are unlocked in the starfish stream, it doesn't seem like you're going to end up with 10 or 12, more 5 or 6, and I don't think the ascention perks are remotely a no brainer.
 

Sheriff Godwin Law

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I hope so. I'm with holding judgement until I can see the whole picture of course. But if you're right and ascension perks are simply a viable choice that direct you or reward a very specific flavor of game play, without always being the most optimal choice, that would be the best result for me.
 

faljen_isus

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if they decided to push release until may, but were to add more quality to the ascension paths that would be painful, but maybe people would appreciate it more

shroud gives us new interactions, a fun new thing to explore, while bio and tech gives 2 clicks and some faction problems... i just see the untapped potential here and feel sad because of it
just look at wiz's twitter teasers, it took him a week just to give us a glimpse of the shroud and a handful of tweets to present the other 2 paths
 

The Founder

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I think this is how my first game will go. Cybernetic implants without going full robot as well as some gene modification to get rid of imperfections in the genome.
I am a bit worried about the 2nd tier of Techno Ascension to be underwhelming too. I mean you do get +20% on any tile yield and immortal leaders, but that does not sound so awesome imho.

My prediction about the Acension paths thus far was:
Psionic give you leader Focused Bonuses (you still get some tile yields, but the strong stuff is on leader side).
Technological gives you pop Focussed Bonuses (you still get some leader stuff, but the strong stuff is on teh pop side).
While Biological let's you choose. There are both Leader Focussed and Pop focussed Traits.

I think that Dev Diary confirms it.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong but level one synth AP immediately turns all POPs into cyborgs? Seems kind of drastic, maybe it should say some of you POPs are beginning to experiment with cybernetics?
You get a special project to Cyborgify them. At wich point all new pops of that species are born with the cyborg trait.
 

Emraldis

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In the livestream where they were showing off Psionic Ascension, it looked like Wiz was able to hold off taking his first ascension perk until he had finished a second tradition and unlocked the second Tier of perks, and then used both choices on Tier 2 perks.

Considering most (if not all) of the dev diary stuff -including the Ascension paths and Megastructures- require at least 2 traditions finished to start, it would make holding off on your first perk a possible strategy to unlock more of the higher tier stuff, both sooner and in total.
That was only because he wasn't showing off any of the other perks, you just can't select the first part of the ascension path until you've hit your second ascension perk, you can still pick one for the first slot. Same goes with the third one (since you need number 4 to finalize the ascension path).
 

Omanes

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Something that would be nice would be an alternative ascension perk that doesn't require species modification. Something along the lines of "species conservatism" which is an explicit rejection of the other modifying ascension paths. I guess the premise should be "instead of changing ourselves, we must change our environment" offering some perks similar to the species ascension through say alternative technology that would be redundant for those going down the other paths (eg. option for improving planet habitability, more powerful buildings, better AI management for research efficiency). I guess the basis would be that "other nations are modifying themselves, so to keep up with the race we need to evolve without violating our principles or the principles of other species in our empire".

If the other species ascension paths caused a great deal of unrest (eg. resistant factions which could prevent certain sections of the population being modified) it'd be something that'd be worth it, or indeed would be something that might be the only option for fanatical purifiers who wish to maintain their species' purity.

Of course there are other ascension perks that cover some of what I just said (looking at the live stream) so I guess it might not necessarily need to work out that way.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Something that would be nice would be an alternative ascension perk that doesn't require species modification. Something along the lines of "species conservatism" which is an explicit rejection of the other modifying ascension paths. I guess the premise should be "instead of changing ourselves, we must change our environment" offering some perks similar to the species ascension through say alternative technology that would be redundant for those going down the other paths (eg. option for improving planet habitability, more powerful buildings, better AI management for research efficiency). I guess the basis would be that "other nations are modifying themselves, so to keep up with the race we need to evolve without violating our principles or the principles of other species in our empire".

If the other species ascension paths caused a great deal of unrest (eg. resistant factions which could prevent certain sections of the population being modified) it'd be something that'd be worth it, or indeed would be something that might be the only option for fanatical purifiers who wish to maintain their species' purity.

Of course there are other ascension perks that cover some of what I just said (looking at the live stream) so I guess it might not necessarily need to work out that way.
That's called "A good chunk of the other Perks".

Of course not embracing a major change to your species doesn't give you a big event chain about the major changes to your species.
 

Omanes

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Yeah, I guess it would be a little pointless. Suppose it'd mostly be a thematic thing - like you can have slavery enabled, but not use it (at the moment), or you can give synths full rights, but not have the accord so you can reverse it. I guess it'd be a means of saying explicitly "we promise we won't do this" which I guess would offer assurances to any pops that fear it happening if it's going on elsewhere. It could offer a mere unity or happiness boost maybe? Feels a little like there does need to be some degree of response that empires that don't want to go down the modding route can go down in response, whether or not its a separate ascension perk, or just something on the policy screen.
 

Surimi

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I am a bit worried about the 2nd tier of Techno Ascension to be underwhelming too. I mean you do get +20% on any tile yield and immortal leaders, but that does not sound so awesome imho.

+20% tile yields is enough. It's pretty big.

Also, while it's a bit early to speculate about balance I think we'll see people comboing technological ascension with habitats and the dyson sphere. You could get some pretty mad materialist research strategies out of that, I think.
 

The Founder

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+20% tile yields is enough. It's pretty big.

Also, while it's a bit early to speculate about balance I think we'll see people comboing technological ascension with habitats and the dyson sphere. You could get some pretty mad materialist research strategies out of that, I think.
To clarify: It is good from a numbers perspective, no doubt. And that is before the 100% habitability everywhere.

But it might really not be that interesting. Having higher production is kind of "meh". Pop Bonuses are not offring that many new gameplay options.
And the Immortal leaders could actually be a problem in Authoritarian Governments.
 

Taritu

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Fanatic egalitarian synth makes a ton of sense. "All citizens will have exactly the same abilities. Nobody will be inferior or superior to anyone!" I suppose you could do the same with bio ascension.

though I guess leaders with different stats sort of mitigates against it.