Alternative strategy as Burgundy - Joining the HRE

[shivan]

I played with Burgundy a few times. I think its fun with the traditions since it gives the potential for a huge mercenary army. But its really hard to play a Burgundy. France is really a monster in EU4 and always out to get me.
As Burgundy you find yourself sandwiched between France and the HRE. Its hard to expand unless you go overseas.

Then I found out that it is possible to join the HRE as Burgundy! You just need to release many vassals in the low countries so your base tax goes down. After a few years you re annex all of the nations.
Being in the HRE gives you the protection of the emperor. I found it very useful.
Every time you take a province from France you can add it to the empire which makes it a bitch for France to get it back.

Has anyone else tried this?

 

[unmerged(65679)]

Having never played Burgundy or France I can't attest my next comment is 100% accurate but from what I've always observed in playing EU for a long time is that as Burgundy and a human player you really shouldn't need to do that.
England starts in HYW with France and maybe its Portugal too? Or they can be called.

If I was Burgundy I'd declare war on France easily right then and there or I'd grab some allies who rival france then declare. Immediately.

 

[Alblaka]

Doesn't seem like a bright move. I tried it just now and you need to abandon pretty much 75% of your territory + go diplomizing Austria A LOT (since it always rivals you). In the end, the time investment doesn't make up for the gain, you could have warred France twice in that timeframe.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's pretty trivial to blow France to pieces as soon as you can fabricate a claim on them. Just ally Castille + declare. With cheap mercs + a little control, I beat France the very first time I played Burgundy, losing about 1/2 manpower and taking 0 loans. Future wars lost basically nothing, and within 30 years I was attacking them + England at the same time without trouble, until I vassaled them and started rebuilding them.

After that, you can get into HRE via taking the electors as vassals ^_^.

 

[pkderek]

Just remember the Cav bonus they get and fill out your infantry with Mercs. Higher Cav ratio + mercs destroys France in the early game, and you'll soon be fighting world wars (I've fought off France, Austria, and 10 minors if you can call Savoy a minor at the same time) like nbd. Just be sure to ally Castille, that part is absolutely essential. Also you really, really need high shock leaders. This goes back into your Cav bonus. You'll see their morale plummet and numbers get erased.

Thinking back though, I semi-lost the war. France had formed a PU with Naples and I contested it. Problem was France brought the whole coalition with them. I won every battle but my vassals lost lots of battles and fighting 30 countries is hard to keep them from occupying. I could have won because Mercs free replenishment is so good, but I didn't think it was worth it. France was in shambles and had like -100 prestige and Naples had already broken off.

So yeah, it's really not that hard. You just have to be willing to take loans. Lots of loans. And ally Castille. Always ally Castille. And always fight in your territory across rivers at the minimum.

 

[shivan]

I still think it was not such a bad move. But ill also admit that it might have been influenced by my first disastrous game. At the start of the game all of the major powers had rivaled me. France, Castille, England and Austria. No allies anywhere. Also the AE pentalties are so severe that even if you win a war against France you will be facing a coalition.

Although you have to give up quite a bit of your territory its not that bad. The vassals still provide troops and some taxes and its only temporary. Also remember that when you join the HRE you get Imperial Integrity. The 10% tech discount and lower revolt risk is quite nice.

After that, you can get into HRE via taking the electors as vassals ^_^.

The problem is that attacking them will provoke Austria. But if you manage, does being elected emperor make you join the HRE with all your provinces? How does it work?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You usually want to day 0 ally castile if possible. France should give you no AE; simply force them to release nations until they're tiny, then vassal them (15 AE total so far), then spam as much "return cores to France" as possible, which also gives AE. Occasionally you can toss in a captured --> gift to them to restore provinces that lost cores...they'll buy it due to previously owned...but not too much since ceding it yourself costs points.

Even better than return cores is if France occupies cores themselves. Also, be sure to work in some improved relations with Scotland and diplovassal them if England beats them down to a tiny nation. You can easily pre-ship units there, occupy all of England's provinces, and sink their fleet since they don't have any ports.

The problem is that attacking them will provoke Austria. But if you manage, does being elected emperor make you join the HRE with all your provinces? How does it work?

Best way is to get into a war with Austria, then declare on electors, but this will take much longer to accomplish. It's not a big deal though, not with France, Scotland, and maybe even England as vassals. You can instead just join the colonial party via Connaught.