Alternate reinforcement locations for existing maps

[Alarantalara]

One of the reasons that new maps are fun is the uncertainty—I don't know where reinforcements will appear. This is especially noticeable on the escort missions, where the amount of time available because of waiting for the escorted units allows me to preposition my units behind where the enemy will appear, letting me get rear attacks essentially unopposed (after all, they head for the escorted units first).

Would it be possible to add alternate deployment locations for the enemy reinforcements so that I can't just set up killing grounds for them?

 

[DarkSpade]

I'd like to see alternate deployment for everything and everyone.(maybe not turrets). I hate starting in the exact same spot every time I drop on a map.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Yes, would love more spawning positions for everyone, player Lance and OPFOR.

 

[Alarantalara]

While more in general would be nice, the part I'm most interested in is not knowing how the map is going to play out the moment I see it. If it were just another pattern to memorize from each new player starting point it wouldn't have the same effect. So additional player start locations matter the least.

 

[Donvale]

While more in general would be nice, the part I'm most interested in is not knowing how the map is going to play out the moment I see it. If it were just another pattern to memorize from each new player starting point it wouldn't have the same effect. So additional player start locations matter the least.

I made the suggestion earlier that for maps where reinforcements are actively added there should always be two spots and the system should always pick the one furthest from any player units.
This was suggested to resolve the units suddenly appeared in the middle of my lance and then moving before me issues a lot of people find very frustrating, but it would also achieve the objective of making each encounter play differently if you initially move to a different area of the map.
I like the idea of combining this with two (or more) possible drop locations as well, the two features combined would make for several alternative ways things to play out and keep things feeling realistic at the same time without fundamentally changing the gameplay or balancing too much!

 

[Donvale]

Exhibit A:
The green square is my medium mech that had retreated behind the hill due to AC fire from a base up the valley.
The red square is the four lights dropped off by dropship that all then got to move before me as if I never even saw the dropship coming in!
Darius kindly added a helpful "Reinforcements incoming, make sure you don't get flanked..." just to add a little in the wound.
The only saving grace is that half of them decided to sensor lock the rest of my lance for the AC turrets and so the medium only took two small volleys in the back before reversing into the corner of the valley.
Having these mechs arrive wasn't that big an issue, having all four of them move before my medium got a chance is a pretty big issue! I shouldn't have to tactically assume four lights are just going to magically appear directly behind my mechs any time they feel like it and then get to act before me, there is simply no way to defend against it and losing a mech to this on an Ironman run would be heading pretty far into rage quit terrritory.

 

[Alarantalara]

I am against the idea of picking locations based on the locations of the player's mechs. While it could prevent the situation described it also allows the player to control the initial location, which is exactly what I don't want.

For essentially all escort missions, I now play in such a way that the mechs that spawn when the convoy reaches the destination always appear with their backs to my short ranged mechs (as an example I offer up the last video in Edmond's "There are four lights" campaign). Forcing them to be further from my mechs would let me do that and place them in a location of my preference, which would warp play even more. After all, I can place one mech (with LRMs so it's not out of the fight) in the spot I don't want them to spawn, then place the rest slightly farther away from the other location.

Making the enemy mechs appear farther away also doesn't prevent you from having the rear of your units facing them when they appear.
Also, you'll need a very good definition of what is farther away. I can think of three offhand and none of them can completely prevent what you want.
1) Find the closest mech to each location and pick the location which has the greatest distance. What happens if I split my forces to attack from both sides and end up with a mech in both reinforcement locations?
2) Use the greatest distance from the shape made by the mechs (the centroid). Now one mech very far away from both locations can distort the shape so they still appear close to the majority of your units.
3) Maximize the sum of the squares of the distances to all the mechs. Now the one mech separated from the others is the one that gets dropped on, at which point it doesn't even matter if I go second because it's now 4v1 against me.
In other words, choosing the "farther" location can still be gamed, has some difficult questions about implementation, and cannot offer a complete solution without having a lot more than two reinforcement locations (I think 5 would be the minimum in the unlikely event that the player occupied the other 4).

 

[Donvale]

I am against the idea of picking locations based on the locations of the player's mechs. While it could prevent the situation described it also allows the player to control the initial location, which is exactly what I don't want.

For essentially all escort missions, I now play in such a way that the mechs that spawn when the convoy reaches the destination always appear with their backs to my short ranged mechs (as an example I offer up the last video in Edmond's "There are four lights" campaign). Forcing them to be further from my mechs would let me do that and place them in a location of my preference, which would warp play even more. After all, I can place one mech (with LRMs so it's not out of the fight) in the spot I don't want them to spawn, then place the rest slightly farther away from the other location.

Making the enemy mechs appear farther away also doesn't prevent you from having the rear of your units facing them when they appear.
Also, you'll need a very good definition of what is farther away. I can think of three offhand and none of them can completely prevent what you want.
1) Find the closest mech to each location and pick the location which has the greatest distance. What happens if I split my forces to attack from both sides and end up with a mech in both reinforcement locations?
2) Use the greatest distance from the shape made by the mechs (the centroid). Now one mech very far away from both locations can distort the shape so they still appear close to the majority of your units.
3) Maximize the sum of the squares of the distances to all the mechs. Now the one mech separated from the others is the one that gets dropped on, at which point it doesn't even matter if I go second because it's now 4v1 against me.
In other words, choosing the "farther" location can still be gamed, has some difficult questions about implementation, and cannot offer a complete solution without having a lot more than two reinforcement locations (I think 5 would be the minimum in the unlikely event that the player occupied the other 4).

I think your overly complicating the situation and trying to think every specific instances where it doesn't quiet give the benefits it could.
The intention was not to make a perfect solution, just one that would give a little more variety and realism than the current solution, perhaps mitigate some of the more common issues and be very easy to implement for the developers.
Sure there are bound to be far better solutions, but as soon as you make a suggestion that involves large amount of development, unless it's a blinder of an idea it will never make the cut.

Escort missions as mentioned are a more difficult problem anyway for the simple fact both your location and the enemies are fairly constrained by the story element, not much point having an ambush point so far away they can never actually prevent the friendlies making the escape zone, that said having options for left or right (or possibly some combination of both if neither or both locations are locked out by friendlies) as incoming locations would still help make meta gaming a little harder.

 

[Justin Kase]

Would love to see a bit more randomization on the maps for Reinforcements, Patrols, etc. - this would add a lot of replay value to the game.