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adam_grif

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I am not sure we all know that Soviet is getting a rework next. Last time I heard podcat mention it (yesterday) he said it was OK but with little options. He said much more negative things about US and UK tree. I think we see Nordoc countries and new UK and US tree next.

What would be super neat is if they snuck the UK overhaul into a free update (1.6), and the "alt history" paid section of the tree was retroactively granted to TfV owners. Would be a nice little bonus. I mean I'm just dreaming out loud, but it would be very cool :)

Thematically, my actual guess at the next expansion is that it's Nordic and Espionage focussed (for paid content), with the two overhauls being USSR and UK. They are both trees that seem to have a lot of potential Nordic interaction, and UK+USSR are both countries that have a lot to do with espionage.

If it was a smaller update that would be that, but if it was a bigger update they could squeeze a naval overhaul in too as part of the free patch.
 

hkrommel

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Yes I agree. Keep in mind also they allready confirmed that next DLC is going to smaller than Waking the Tiger.

That's probably a point in favor of the next DLC covering the USSR then. It needs much less work than the US, and doesn't require new/reworked mechanics, which the US probably does.
 

adam_grif

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Yes I agree. Keep in mind also they allready confirmed that next DLC is going to smaller than Waking the Tiger.

Where did they confirm that? I don't watch every stream etc so I might have missed a recent update. The last thing I heard was from the season pass thread:

UPDATE 15/11-2017
With the announcement of Waking the Tiger we are also happy to let you know that Expansion Pass owners will be receiving a fourth, still unannounced expansion of approximately the same size as Waking the Tiger. This will mean the originally promised two expansions is now increased to four.
 

Dryhad

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I am not sure we all know that Soviet is getting a rework next. Last time I heard podcat mention it (yesterday) he said it was OK but with little options. He said much more negative things about US and UK tree. I think we see Nordoc countries and new UK and US tree next.
While I agree that we shouldn't think ourselves at all certain of which trees would be revamped next, I think that if the next DLC gives trees to the Nordic countries, then the Soviet Union would be a logical revamp at that time so that it could be interwoven with the Finnish tree.
 

Ryousan2k

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you have strange ideas of what stalinist USSR was like. No (0, zero) chances. Maybeeeeeeeeeeeeeee it was possible in 20s and early collectivization years, but it\s 1936 and they're political zombies at best.

You mean like Commie and Shogunate Japan? But aside from "plausibility" being a non-issue anymore (if it was to begin with in a game where Luxemburg can rule the World) History has plenty of instances where the underdog actually prevailed, just ask Sexy Mao about it.

While truly not a political Powerhouse, the White Exiles were still extant at the time, they even took part in the Spanish Civil War

white-russians-640x920.jpg


Combine that with Anti-Soviet Sentiments in certain parts of the USSR and discontent with Stalin and I say there was a hint of a possilibily: Many whites returned to Russia when the German Invasion began , if there was a a crack in Soviet Leadership I have no doubts many Whites would taken the chance (however slim) to initiate their long desired Spring Campaign. Its unlikely, but is far from impossible
 

CrazyZombie

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Restoration of Tzarism is impossible. At all. Completely.

Monarchists were a disorganized marginal part of White Movement even during Civil War and things didn't get better for any of them up to 1936. In Soviet Union majority of population has not the best memory about "old good times" and have no a single reason to be somewhat nostalgic about Russia before revolution. Incompetent Nicolas the II has become the symbol of monarchy, that wasn't adding much popularity to it.

In SU we can technically speak about small number of paths:
1. Officers plot.
2. NKVD plot.
3. Stalin/Trotsky dilemma.
4. Other Party options, caused by variants 1-2.

So, SU will anyway stay communist or non-alligned dictatorship. And no other variants.
 
Last edited:

Ryousan2k

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Incompetent Nicolas the II has become the symbol of monarchy, that wasn't adding much popularity to it.

We could make the case that Czechs were, arguably, the greatest antagonists towards Austria-Hungary, therefore the propect of a possible Habsburgh restoration of the Empire should be unthinkable for them, let alone by any chance of joining a new Artificial State. Except we CAN make the do that exactly...


have no a single reason to be somewhat nostalgic about Russia before revolution.

Many people, specially the cossacks and the Ukraine, were antgonistic toward the Soviets: They didnt really improve the state of affairs with ..."certain lack of food in the Ukraine" and the FOrced Collectivisation. Many joined the SS by the score, its not hard to envision they would chance it with the Whites, as they chanced it with Hitler.


Restoration of Tzarism is impossible. At all. Completely.

That what makes it so alluring o_O
 

Olliganak

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Personally the only way I see a fascist Russia happening, is if during the Second Russian Civil War (which can happen if you are really bad at purging people) the RFP wanders out of Manchuria to join the anti stalinists. Then, after the civil war is over, they can try to usurp power. Whether or not this a good idea, I'm not sure, but it is the only way I see fascist Russia happening in any logical way.

Also, Trotsky coming back should probably cause a civil war also. There is no way that him over throwing Stalin wouldn't result in war, at least the way I see it.
 

mursolini

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We could make the case that Czechs were, arguably, the greatest antagonists towards Austria-Hungary, therefore the propect of a possible Habsburgh restoration of the Empire should be unthinkable for them, let alone by any chance of joining a new Artificial State. Except we CAN make the do that exactly...
Czechs either fight, or get absorbed by Germany, or get absorbed by Hungary. It is not the same situation as SU, by any stretch of imagination. SU going monarchist would be as ridiculous as USA restoring British monarch on the throne.

There are newer, better suited authoritarian ideologies, like, communism, fashism, or just military Junta.
Many people, specially the cossacks and the Ukraine, were antgonistic toward the Soviets: They didnt really improve the state of affairs with ..."certain lack of food in the Ukraine" and the FOrced Collectivisation. Many joined the SS by the score, its not hard to envision they would chance it with the Whites, as they chanced it with Hitler.
Whites were equally, if not more unpopular. It wouldn`t be a huge stretch to see Ukraine rebel again in case of civil war and a threat of Russian reactionaries winning, but Russian monarchists will find zero welcome. In case you didn`t notice, Ukrainean position in Russian civil war was to support neither side, but declare independence.
That what makes it so alluring o_O
No, it makes it quite stupid actually. People get past old forms of goverment quite fast. If there was no core of supporters for a particular path, there shouldn`t be a way. In Germany, there were no monarchist purges, hense monarchist were influential, Weimar goverment was a failure and possibility of monarchis coup exist as another way for authoritarians to rise. Hungary can use Hapsburgs for "legitimate" expancion.

What the heck do Romanov suppose to give to Russia? They, have nothing. No skilled class of influential people backing them, no claims on foreign lands, nothing at all.

Japanese commies did in fact have lost of supporters in factories, at least.
 

Ryousan2k

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Czechs either fight, or get absorbed by Germany, or get absorbed by Hungary. It is not the same situation as SU, by any stretch of imagination.

Why not? The Czechs were equally fed up with allegedly incompetent, obselete and authoritharian Monarch. They didnt even wait for the EMpire to collapse to begin to sabotage it in the Middle of WWI: I will leave history the debate if Habsburgs were as bad of the Romanovs (or viceversa) But the situation is not disimilar: The Czechs engotiated the Petit Entente with the sole purpose of avoiding a Habsburg restoration. Reliquinshing any sort of power towards them is ridicoulous


hites were equally, if not more unpopular. It wouldn`t be a huge stretch to see Ukraine rebel again in case of civil war and a threat of Russian reactionaries winning, but Russian monarchists will find zero welcome. In case you didn`t notice, Ukrainean position in Russian civil war was to support neither side, but declare independence.

Problem is that as bad the White might have been, they hand not hurt them in the way the soviets did (the aformentioned "food scarcity") I cocnede that it would be seen as a deal witha very proverbial "White Devil" but if they offered a way out of Stalinism I beleive they would take it: As I said before, they took with Hitler.


No, it makes it quite stupid actually. People get past old forms of goverment quite fast. If there was no core of supporters for a particular path, there shouldn`t be a way

There were plenty of White exiles in Europe and Asia. They had a somewhat legitimate succesor to the Russian Throne. They had more than what was left of the PRC had when they undertook the Long March. Its a situation akin to that of the Japanese COmmies: All te supporters are abroad, its all a matter a briging them in.


What the heck do Romanov suppose to give to Russia? They, have nothing. No skilled class of influential people backing them, no claims on foreign lands, nothing at all.

The figure of the tsar in itself is a powerful thing, so powerful indeed that the SOviets had to purge them thoroughly. And what they can claim is nothing less than the Russian Empire: The Lost Baltic provinces, Eastern poland, Finland, Bessarabia and the dreams of Pan-Slavism all are tied somewhat to the Russian EMpire. And the idea of powerful Empire, that was a Great Power respected and feared, its alluring to a largely desillusioned population. Thats what Hitler did after all.

Not to mention he extensive support that the Orthodox Church could give this new Monarch. And the Church was powerful indeed, so powerful that Stalin had to use it during the German Invasion
 

CrazyZombie

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Problem is that as bad the White might have been, they hand not hurt them in the way the soviets did (the aformentioned "food scarcity") I cocnede that it would be seen as a deal witha very proverbial "White Devil" but if they offered a way out of Stalinism I beleive they would take it: As I said before, they took with Hitler.
Just to define things... Problem of hunger in 30-s was 1) overclaimed way later due to political reasons 2) already solved in 1936.
Taking into account that Stalin has managed to "sell" it as local autorities fuck up, there was no problem of really massive social order for "muh, evil commies, let's overthrow them". IRL massive collaboration happened mostly in the territories, got after 1939, Crimea befause of Crimean Tatars and Causasus - mostly Chechens. Last two categories just thought that they have changed sides quickly enough to please the winner and get independence even in the form of German protectorate.

Also, when you say, that Whites didn't hurt people as much as Reds did, you obviously know nothing about neither Russian history, nor exact that period. Nothing personal, just, I - live here, you - are obviously not.

In 1930-s there are still alive people who fought with Whites in Civil war, and people, who remember "White terror" pretty well too. Young generation is grown up on the stories about deeds of "right side" and crimes for the one, who were "wrong ones".

On the other side of problem, White emigrants, who in our history agreed to ally with Hitler, hate the Soviet state itself, the Party and the people. So, if we just assume that things have turned in that fantasy way to give them power, they would be likely to start such a terror that even Mao would be impressed with the scale. So, a new rebellion will be a matter of months. Because it is kind of uncomfortable to live in the state, where rulers see you as "traitors" and sort of "subhumans".


There were plenty of White exiles in Europe and Asia. They had a somewhat legitimate succesor to the Russian Throne. They had more than what was left of the PRC had when they undertook the Long March. Its a situation akin to that of the Japanese COmmies: All te supporters are abroad, its all a matter a briging them in.
Yes, there are plenty of White exiles in Europe. They are disorganized even worse than during Civil war, have completely different vision of political future of Russia and after all, monarchists are a minority. There are somewhat about 3-4 possible "heirs" in that time, who just "fight" with each other, while majority of White emigration are people, who actually supported the fall of monarchy in February 1917. Not bolsheviks have thrown the Nicolas out of the throne - "democrats" have done that.

Also, I must remind you, that NKVD and intel have own people inside White emigration, so, Cremlin knows about everything inside that group earlier than any decision is finally taken.


The figure of the tsar in itself is a powerful thing, so powerful indeed that the SOviets had to purge them thoroughly. And what they can claim is nothing less than the Russian Empire: The Lost Baltic provinces, Eastern poland, Finland, Bessarabia and the dreams of Pan-Slavism all are tied somewhat to the Russian EMpire. And the idea of powerful Empire, that was a Great Power respected and feared, its alluring to a largely desillusioned population. Thats what Hitler did after all.
The figure of the tzar was so powerful, that most White leaders and generals during Civil war were the same people, who supported throwing that "powerful figure" out of the throne in 1917.

And about claims... Soviets have claimed no less than the whole world, united under the red banner of revolution. So, what?


Not to mention he extensive support that the Orthodox Church could give this new Monarch. And the Church was powerful indeed, so powerful that Stalin had to use it during the German Invasion
To be tolerated in Soviet society after the War, Church firstly should have 1) shown unquestionable loyalty to the state 2) provide own help - with propaganda, gathering money for army and etc. After they have done that, Stalin has reached the compromise with the Church - regime doesn't see them until they stay outside of politics.