Alt-history U.S.S.R. in next DLC

[Ⰽⰻⱃⰻⰾⰾ]

As you know, most likely in the next DLC we'll see the SOV focus tree rework (and possibly "Communist" gameplay). I would like to voice my expectations regarding this.

1. I do not believe that "fascist" and "democratic" alternative ways are possible. All potential leaders have been removed from the politics long before the game events and have no influence or relevance.
2. As in the case of Germany, a military coup should be the trigger for alt-history events, and "Tukhachevsky case" is the most suitable candidate. There are some indirect evidences that perhaps the "Case of Trotskyist Anti-Soviet Military Organization" was not fabricated from the beginning to the end despite many other cases. Even if in our timeline, the potential coup was ephemeral, in the game Tukhachevsky could try preventively strike ahead in fear of repressions.
3. After the fight against Stalin's government (not sure, full-scale civil war is appropriate), Tukhachevsky could ask Trotsky to return, as he was his old commander in Civil War times and was more competent in ideology and politics, or ... become a "Red Napoleon", moving away from the Bolshevik principles in economy (neutral / non-aligned way). The transition of power to Bukharin is unlikely, but who knows? Maybe he would have formed an opposition to Trotsky after his return and ... [fortune telling on tea leaves]
   
4. I'd like to see a split in communist movements all-around the world after power change in U.S.S.R. and decline of world tension (such turmoils can't make damn commies stronger, right? / Tukhachevsky is our guy and will return good old days).

UPD#1: There is an urban legend about potential removal Stalin from power in first weeks of War. It tells, Stalin was seriously shocked by Hitler's "betrayal" so withdrowned his work in Kremlin and went to his "dacha"; after week or two group of high officials incl. Beria and Zhukov visited him, but when they saw him, it looked like, he waited for arrest. In our timeline they came to create Stavka, but it could be cool alt-history event/decision, if they seized power. Totalitarian stalinist regime wouldn't change much, so this alt-history scenario doesn't need new focus tree.
UPD#2: Latest devdiary inspired me. I know, It was almost impossible, but in case of Stalin's dismissal, it would be nice if woman become leader. Alexandra Kollontai, first female minister, had some kind of ties with Trotsky, so he probably could return her from "honorable exile" in Sweden (she became first female ambassador). Trotsky's place in Soviet Union after years of stalinist propaganda would be very unstable, so in leadership-triangle Trotsky-Kollontai-Bukharin (-Rykov?) she theoretically can rise even higher.
UPD#3: Outlined the overall plan of the political part of focus tree. Just to summarize.

Spoiler

 

[Reinner]

You get +1 simply for not bringing up Tsar restoration..

 

[Sourlol]

Why not an assassination of Stalin? Dude was quite paranoid by all accounts.

Have two or three possible assassins. Take the focus, choose the outcome of the event. Based on who killed Stalin, subsequent NFs are opened and closed.

Is there any sort of reverse “Lenin on a train in the night” situations that foreign powers could have taken advantage of? A disaffected Russian abroad or someone with a claim to the throne?

What about the people, how was Stalin viewed in his day? Fear, admiration, disdain? Did typical Russians know he was doin the whole gulag thing? Did they just accept it as part of progress? “Cousin Nikolai was sent off to camps, much sadnesses. At least Stalin teaches me to read and write and sometimes we have electricity—is nice.”

I really don’t know, The internals of the USSR is such a blank spot for me. I haven’t even ever played them in game yet.

Personally I’d love to see realistic alt history, but, well, you know, Communist Japan. Not sure paradox agrees entirely.

 

[Wasted Shampoo]

I love the idea of turning the attention on Russia (USA would be great too) for the next DLC. I hope they won’t focus all their efforts on unlikely scenarios and alternative history, but instead adding mechanics that go well with the war in the east, such as: fuel, logistic and town defence.

@Reinner and you get a +1 too. Well said.

 

[a_sophist]

I'd like it if the land doctrine research penalty was tied to whether or not Tukhachevsky is alive. It's somewhat modeled now by the Military Advisers, but the 250 PP advisers are not worth it in my opinion, so I hardly see the impact if I keep him alive.

 

[Ⰽⰻⱃⰻⰾⰾ]

Why not an assassination of Stalin? Dude was quite paranoid by all accounts.

As I know, there were no real serious attempts to kill Stalin. NKVD worked well.

Is there any sort of reverse “Lenin on a train in the night” situations that foreign powers could have taken advantage of? A disaffected Russian abroad or someone with a claim to the throne?

I think it would be possible, only if USSR was under military occupation and foreign powers needed some kind of viceroy here. It took 20 years after the revolution, in emigration, no one seriously believed in the possibility of return.

What about the people, how was Stalin viewed in his day? Fear, admiration, disdain? Did typical Russians know he was doin the whole gulag thing? Did they just accept it as part of progress? “Cousin Nikolai was sent off to camps, much sadnesses. At least Stalin teaches me to read and write and sometimes we have electricity—is nice.”

Fear and reverence, apathy and acceptance, enthusiasm and love. It's hard to tell, all people are different. For example my ancestors were dekulakized and were forced to flee. My ethnic-mordovian grand-grand-grand-mother really hated Russians because all this "communism". But after the war my grand-grand-mother wrote a letter to Stalin's chancery and they returned them a flat in Moscow, illigally occupied by some strangers during war chaos. C'est la vie.

 

[Meglok]

As you know, most likely in the next DLC we'll see the SOV focus tree rework (and possibly "Communist" gameplay). I would like to voice my expectations regarding this.

Just out of curiosity, where did you get that info from?

 

[Ⰽⰻⱃⰻⰾⰾ]

Just out of curiosity, where did you get that info from?

Dev wrote in comments in below WtT diary that they have no time to make GER and SOV both on time, so they chose only one country. It's hard to find direct link.

 

[Meglok]

Dev wrote in comments in below WtT diary that they have no time to make GER and SOV both on time, so they chose only one country. It's hard to find direct link.

I know what you are referring to. I just wouldn't get your hopes up by assuming from that statement Russia is next, especially if the Great Naval Revamp is actually next in line. The Russia tree is actually in pretty good shape compared to the US and Italy. Not to mention the complete lack of a Pacific Campaign kind of leaves US players with nothing to do and no challenge.

Podcat usually does a general "what's next" DD after a release, he might drop a few clues then.

 

[EltharionDrax]

Podcat usually does a general "what's next" DD after a release, he might drop a few clues then.

I wonder what todays DD will be about, if not about looking ahead to what's next, lessons learned etc.

 

[Ⰽⰻⱃⰻⰾⰾ]

I just wouldn't get your hopes up by assuming from that statement Russia is next, especially if the Great Naval Revamp is actually next in line. The Russia tree is actually in pretty good shape compared to the US and Italy. Not to mention the complete lack of a Pacific Campaign kind of leaves US players with nothing to do and no challenge.

GER and SOV are most popular nations, so even if they're "okay", that's not enough. USA will be boring anyway (except insane alt-history scenarios), Pacific war was easy walk for US military in OTL. So I think, despite DLC-theme U.S.S.R. will get some kind of rework.

Podcat usually does a general "what's next" DD after a release, he might drop a few clues then.

Probably he will announce naval rework, but whatever after month we'll see "New USSR" dev diary like it was with Germany.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

USSR doesn't need alternate trees, you have Papa Stalin

 

[Wasted Shampoo]

GER and SOV are most popular nations, so even if they're "okay", that's not enough. USA will be boring anyway (except insane alt-history scenarios), Pacific war was easy walk for US military in OTL.

But USA still doesn’t follow any logic when it comes to historical operations. No Guadalcanal, no midways, no Iwo Jima, no Italian landing and no liberation of France.

Maybe it wouldn’t be so boring if all those events were represented in game.

 

[jpapple]

I would like to have an event chain for the Union to break up when they lose certain VP's maybe have the option to put Stalin under house arrest and make one of the SOV generals to take power, from there you have the option to go into the different ideology paths?

 

[coffeelingfine]

But USA still doesn’t follow any logic when it comes to historical operations. No Guadalcanal, no midways, no Iwo Jima, no Italian landing and no liberation of France.

Maybe it wouldn’t be so boring if all those events were represented in game.

Agree with this. USA is pretty stale right now and desperately needs a rework.

 

[Wasted Shampoo]

@jpapple historically there were zero chances for this to happen but let’s pretend it goes as you said, this would likely lead to a huge and bloody civil war that prevents Russia to join the war. Unless you really believe that a country can swap ideology from one day to another without consequences.

 

[Xerberous]

@jpapple historically there were zero chances for this to happen but let’s pretend it goes as you said, this would likely lead to a huge and bloody civil war that prevents Russia to join the war. Unless you really believe that a country can swap ideology from one day to another without consequences.

In the version of the game I use to play (1.4.2 without Mods) it usually takes about 1,5 years to change ideology... which is not 100 % historical for most cases but definitly in the same order of magnitude.

 

[Aldahen]

Mark my words: theme for the next DLC is going to be about the Nordic countries and they'll throw in the updated USSR focus tree.

 

[jpapple]

Mark my words: theme for the next DLC is going to be about the Nordic countries and they'll throw in the updated USSR focus tree.

An Internal politics mechanic would be god-like if this is going to be the theme

 

[mursolini]

As I know, there were no real serious attempts to kill Stalin. NKVD worked well.

There were several, unsuccessful attempts. However the repressions themselves show that Stalin`s position was not all that secure, and there was opposition that had to be dealt with. If we talk alternative history, it is not too hard to see a scenario where a large number of Soviet army and bureaucracy leaders freaking out over a new round of repressions, and banding together to kill/remove Stalin, same way Stalin removed many in 1927-28, and how Beria was removed from power after Stalin`s death. It is, vastly more plausible than German Kaiser return, or Austro-Hungarian restoration.