Already waiting patches - fastest Paradox game that I stopped playing

[SunEarth]

I'd feel better about this if there was any communication with the devs. So far we've had one hotfix and a dev diary saying there won't be dev diaries.

They do communicate on the bug report forum.

 

[ThePatriot1776]

Whoa boy... I knew something was a bit off. I just assumed handsome men should look 5-10 years younger than their real age, never going below 16 of course. It's a shame Paradox didn't just make makeup an optional box you can tick in the barbershop that only pretty characters can have. Saying you can only look pretty with makeup on isn't sending the best message either.

The make up is attached to the complexion chosen for the character. There are 9 complexions in the vanilla game with them each having a type of make up on the female model. If you need to have twins you need to use the DNA string for the male model as it doesn't have make up.

Nobles Improved mod adds in a few more complexions.

 

[WeissRaben]

The original statement I was responding to was about Norse seizing territory south of France. I provided historical and genetic proof that the Norse did in fact seize territory in what would become Italy which is south of France. I never stated anything other than the facts of history.

Okay, let's start with the fact that - excluding Paul the Deacon, who wrote looong after the fact - it's pretty much accepted the Lombards started out around the Elbe, so between Bohemia and Northern Germany, and not from Scandinavia. This said, there's no magical line stopping the Norse from controlling land in southern Europe, but there should be a limit to how far a central authority can exert direct control. Adventurers conquering land? No problem. Sweden directly controlling land, through a thin connection thousand of miles long? That is the issue. And no, you won't find a valid example for it. The Lombards migrated wholesale and brought their "central authority" along with them; the Norman conquerors detached themselves from the central authority and forged their own domains. But there was no conquest of cities a quarter of the world away, not by keeping them part of your own core lands.

 

[Karlington]

A lot of the issues I've seen and heard about seem more do to bad coding in the soft code versus serious bugs in the hard code. The form Switzerland decision was using a lot of old code. It required Upper Burgundy instead of Transjurania and it required the German culture to even show the event instead of the new sub cultures, or the Central Germanic group.

The form HRE decision was arranged in a weird order so East Francia(Germany) wasn't becoming part of the de jure HRE because the title was destroyed before it was set to be made de jure HRE.

I haven't checked this myself, but I've heard the code for seduction had the AI acceptance rather high.

Seems like a lot of soft code was a bit rushed and half baked. Stuff that can be easily fixed by the next patch. Hell I've already made mods fixing the form HRE and Switzerland events.

There seems to be a decent amount of both kinds IMO, but I see what you're saying. Another good example of errors in the script itself would be the Opus Francigenum decision. It is available to every Latin culture except Italian. That's fine for CK2, but in CK3 French got moved into the Frankish culture group, with the result that French culture characters cannot take the Opus Francigenum decision!

(This has been bug reported and Paradox have replied to the report.)

 

[Karlington]

They do communicate on the bug report forum.

It's good that they do, though I think people are asking for a bit more than that, at least on major issues. It doesn't make sense for players to have to search the bug report forum to see if perhaps someone has reported that the AI doesn't build anything and if Paradox has replied. Know what I mean?

 

[Staffy50]

They do communicate on the bug report forum.

Known issues was updated 4th sep. Great communication.

 

[ThePatriot1776]

Okay, let's start with the fact that - excluding Paul the Deacon, who wrote looong after the fact - it's pretty much accepted the Lombards started out around the Elbe, so between Bohemia and Northern Germany, and not from Scandinavia. This said, there's no magical line stopping the Norse from controlling land in southern Europe, but there should be a limit to how far a central authority can exert direct control. Adventurers conquering land? No problem. Sweden directly controlling land, through a thin connection thousand of miles long? That is the issue. And no, you won't find a valid example for it. The Lombards migrated wholesale and brought their "central authority" along with them; the Norman conquerors detached themselves from the central authority and forged their own domains. But there was no conquest of cities a quarter of the world away, not by keeping them part of your own core lands.

The genetics of the people of the area that was Lombardy back up what was written. They have Scandinavian genes in them not Saxon. If you can defeat the scientific evidence go for it, but it's been long established that the Lombards came from Scandinavia. The genetic research only confirms the written history.

The rest is moving the goal post to win an argument that I did not make. That's a strawman. The original post I replied to was about it was impossible for the Norse to settle anywhere south of France. The Norse hit anywhere in the known, in some cases unknown, world and settled there. That's historical. Unless you want to ignore the settlement of such places as Vineland, Iceland, Newfoundland, etc...

As for control, I never made an argument about it.

 

[Dagda]

Sounds like recency bias from the OP. I agree that there are massive issues but I already have 100 hours played and enjoyed every second. Compared to release EU4, Stellaris, HOI4, Imperator.. CK3 blows those games away at release in terms of 'playability', despite wonky balance (all PDS games at release has some major issue, this is reality).

We definitely need a patch asap, but acting like this isn't the most polished release by PDS in their history is just being disingenuous. Especially when the reception has been overwhelming positive and player/media/streamer reviews all back this up.

 

[Six-Toed Sprocket]

Because that's what diehard fans of Paradox and grand strategy games wanted: a casual experience. are you kidding me?

"Crusader Kings is a casual experience". Are you for real? The tutorial is about 200 hours of ironman mode ffs.

 

[Karlington]

"Crusader Kings is a casual experience". Are you for real? The tutorial is about 200 hours of ironman mode ffs.

I finished the tutorial and then played that entire campaign to the end date, and I don't think I hit 100 hours at that time.

 

[SargonAkkad]

The genetics of the people of the area that was Lombardy back up what was written. They have Scandinavian genes in them not Saxon. If you can defeat the scientific evidence go for it, but it's been long established that the Lombards came from Scandinavia. The genetic research only confirms the written history.

The rest is moving the goal post to win an argument that I did not make. That's a strawman. The original post I replied to was about it was impossible for the Norse to settle anywhere south of France. The Norse hit anywhere in the known, in some cases unknown, world and settled there. That's historical. Unless you want to ignore the settlement of such places as Vineland, Iceland, Newfoundland, etc...

As for control, I never made an argument about it.

Ok, so Gustavus Adolphus, a King from Scandinavia, sacked Munich and different cities in Bohemia. Still makes little sense to have Earls from Scandinavia own landlocked lands in Bavaria or Bohemia.
Using Lombards to justify bordegore vikings mess is like using Roman Britannia to justify Venice owning land in London or York.

 

[ThePatriot1776]

Ok, so Gustavus Adolphus, a King from Scandinavia, sacked Munich and different cities in Bohemia. Still makes little sense to have Earls from Scandinavia own landlocked lands in Bavaria or Bohemia.
Using Lombards to justify bordegore vikings mess is like using Roman Britannia to justify Venice owning land in London or York.

There you go making an argument against something I never positioned myself on. You made the claim that the Norse shouldn't be able to hit south of France. I provided history that shows that it did. I said nothing about control.

As for bordergore, it's historical. Not everything was nice and neat with many counties on the borders being claimed by different kingdoms. You should see the historical map of the HRE. That's bordergore.

Do I think that the AI waging aggressive wars is terrible and seizing territory far beyond diplomatic range? Yes, it needs to be turned down by a lot. There also needs to be ranges implemented on naval exclave path. Funny, but you never actually asked me my opinion on and assumed that I was the opposite of your opinion regarding it.

 

[Six-Toed Sprocket]

I finished the tutorial and then played that entire campaign to the end date, and I don't think I hit 100 hours at that time.

But most mechanics are just carried over from CK2. I played that for hundreds of hours and still dont understand half the dlc mechanics very well

 

[SargonAkkad]

There you go making an argument against something I never positioned myself on. You made the claim that the Norse shouldn't be able to hit south of France. I provided history that shows that it did. I said nothing about control.

As for bordergore, it's historical. Not everything was nice and neat with many counties on the borders being claimed by different kingdoms. You should see the historical map of the HRE. That's bordergore.

Do I think that the AI waging aggressive wars is terrible and seizing territory far beyond diplomatic range? Yes, it needs to be turned down by a lot. There also needs to be ranges implemented on naval exclave path. Funny, but you never actually asked me my opinion on and assumed that I was the opposite of your opinion regarding it.

Still I don't understand why you consider Lombards and Vikings the same people or historical phenomenon, but ok as you want.
HRE bordegore doesn't count like the King of Sweden owning a county in the Middle of Sahara or the King of Mali owning land in Lapland. Please, stop using this argument.

 

[ThePatriot1776]

Still I don't understand why you consider Lombards and Vikings the same people or historical phenomenon, but ok as you want

Because genetics says that at the base they are the same people with a shared genetic history. The only differences between the two is that Lombards added in further genetics from the local inhabitants of Italy. They're an offshoot of their original genetic group that are the Norse.

 

[Fabiano79]

Sounds like recency bias from the OP. I agree that there are massive issues but I already have 100 hours played and enjoyed every second. Compared to release EU4, Stellaris, HOI4, Imperator.. CK3 blows those games away at release in terms of 'playability', despite wonky balance (all PDS games at release has some major issue, this is reality).

We definitely need a patch asap, but acting like this isn't the most polished release by PDS in their history is just being disingenuous. Especially when the reception has been overwhelming positive and player/media/streamer reviews all back this up.

OP here. As I said later in this thread, I agree that CK III is the "cleanest launch" of paradox. But I never stopped playing a PDS game so fast and this is a fact. You may have other experience and Im glad that you like it enough to play 100h. But, as an owner of almost everything PDS released in the last 10 years, I can say that CK 3 balance issues are, for me, as bad as gamebreaking bugs Ive seen before in past games.

But, I do hope this issues can be easily fixed, since they are not proper bugs, and I can get back to the game as soon as possible.

 

[Dagda]

OP here. As I said later in this thread, I do agree that CK III is the "cleanest launch" of paradox.

I can say that CK 3 balance issues are, for me, as bad as gamebreaking bugs Ive seen before in past games.

So which is it? You backtrack to say it's the cleanest launch, but then claim 'gamebreaking' bugs in the past (which absolutely existed in PDS release window games) were somehow playable?

But I never stopped playing a PDS game so fast and this is a fact.

So games with gamebreaking bugs are playable for you. Makes sense

You may have other experience and Im glad that you like it enough to play 100h. But, as an owner of almost everything PDS released in the last 10 years I hope that this issues can be easily fixed, since they are not proper bugs, and I can get back to the game as soon as possible.,

Cool, I'm sure there are plenty of games with actual gamebreaking bugs you can go play instead. I'll be with other 55 thousand of players currently playing CK3 on steam because the game is good and playable despite balance issues.

 

[Olden Weiss]

My first impression of CK III was great and I still think it can be a wonderful game. But, theres too many issues right now and Im already waiting patches. Not even Imperator made me stop playing so fast.

Some problems that I would like to see addressed before I try again:

- AI warfare is very weak and Allies armies are terrible;
- Tribal to feudal needs balance;
- Religion is a mess, heresies everywhere and kings converting way too easily;
- Seduction is too strong (like in CK II), all my wives end up with 6 to 10 kids, most not mine.
- Ironman saves are still being corrupted (even with local save only).

Why am I the only person not experiencing the seduction issues? Anyway, there's a mod that addresses that via game rules, which is the very best way to do it.

Religion isn't a "mess" in my games, but it's certainly less predictable than it was in CK2.

Allies do fine, you just need to understand that they're not your servants. They have their own approach and they're not going to risk their soldiers needlessly.

Tribal to feudal isn't so bad if you know what you're doing and you treat it with the respect it deserves. It's a huge, realm-defining decision. If you make it off the cuff because, "Oh, hey, I can do that now," yes. You're absolutely going to have a hard time.

The ironman save corruption, I wouldn't know about because I don't play ironman. If this is indeed happening, this is the one thing I'd say definitely needs fixing.

 

[Fabiano79]

So which is it? You backtrack to say it's the cleanest launch, but then claim 'gamebreaking' bugs in the past (which absolutely existed in PDS release window games) were somehow playable?



So games with gamebreaking bugs are playable for you. Makes sense



Cool, I'm sure there are plenty of games with actual gamebreaking bugs you can go play instead. I'll be with other 55 thousand of players currently playing CK3 on steam because the game is good and playable despite balance issues.

Yeah, I was not very coherent...I deserved your funny remarks. But anyway, I will wait the patches and then join the 55k players on steam.

 

[Da Biggman]

What do you mean the Norse mechanics are broken! Just because they turned the world into Swiss Cheese which let me (for the first time since CK I) conquer THE ENTIRE MAP super easily means nothing.

In all honesty, I did have a good laugh. Started in the earliest bookmark, by 1000 almost the entire world was Swiss Cheese so everyone was too weak to fight me, I just picked them off one by one. Conquered the entire map by 1250.