Allow Zoroastrians to have a Defender of the Faith

[SirQuady]

With the cool update to the DotF mechanics we got recently, and the update to zoroastrianism we just got, I was hoping to create a country to unify the religion and protect the diaspora...unfortunately, it seems that for some reason, there can't be a Defender of the Faith for Zoroastrianism? It doesn't seem ahistorical, considering the religious roles of Zoroastrian Persia....

Honestly dissapointing that such an alternate history isn't possible

 

[jonjowett]

I agree, and came here to make this exact point. If you somehow revive Zoroastrianism, it's probably going to be as much of a centralised religion as Christianity or Islam, so it should have the option of having a Defender of the Faith.

I suppose the criticism is that there's probably only ever going to be one independent Zoroastrian nation. (Yours.) And in that case, maybe there's nothing to defend? But this is counterbalanced by the fact that other extreme-minority religions can have a DotF (Anglican, Ibadi, Hussite), even though it's unlikely that there are two independent nations following that faith.

 

[Zohtun]

I agree, and came here to make this exact point. If you somehow revive Zoroastrianism, it's probably going to be as much of a centralised religion as Christianity or Islam, so it should have the option of having a Defender of the Faith.

I suppose the criticism is that there's probably only ever going to be one independent Zoroastrian nation. (Yours.) And in that case, maybe there's nothing to defend? But this is counterbalanced by the fact that other extreme-minority religions can have a DotF (Anglican, Ibadi, Hussite), even though it's unlikely that there are two independent nations following that faith.

But as OP did say, DOTF has tiers based on how many nations exist with the Emperor DLC. So if Paradox had the default DOTF locked (since then it's just "pay 500 gold, receive buffs, nothing interesting and just a flat benefit for Zoroastrianism) but Emperor legalising taking DOTF, it'd be pretty neat, as the reward for a single nation being the DOTF is merely +1 missionary and -10% missionary cost. Hardly gamebreaking and for the 500 ducat price, definitely something with a nasty early-game price tag.

More importantly, enabling the DOTF with its tiered system would encourage you as a resurgent Zoroastrianism to spread the faith.

Then you have a TRULY resurgent Zoroastrianism!

 

[jonjowett]

But as OP did say, DOTF has tiers based on how many nations exist with the Emperor DLC. So if Paradox had the default DOTF locked (since then it's just "pay 500 gold, receive buffs, nothing interesting and just a flat benefit for Zoroastrianism) but Emperor legalising taking DOTF, it'd be pretty neat, as the reward for a single nation being the DOTF is merely +1 missionary and -10% missionary cost. Hardly gamebreaking and for the 500 ducat price, definitely something with a nasty early-game price tag.

More importantly, enabling the DOTF with its tiered system would encourage you as a resurgent Zoroastrianism to spread the faith.

Then you have a TRULY resurgent Zoroastrianism!

Unfortunately, there's no easy way in-game to forcibly convert other independent nations to Zoroastrianism, so you're basically stuck with subject nations. (Which will get you to tier 2 or 3 but probably not to tier 5.) This could be changed - eg. I think I saw a mission somewhere in SE Asia that allows forced conversion of anyone in a peace deal - and I think this would be another nice unlockable perk for all religions.

For example:

• Own 100 core provinces of your religion and, if they exist, own all holy sites and convert them to your religion -> DotF unlocked for your religion
  • Perhaps "holy sites" should include all great works where your exact religion appears in the limiting criteria? (Most provincial triggered modifiers for holy sites have been removed in Emperor and replaced with great works.)
• Be DotF tier >=2 and have full religious ideas -> Can force convert in peace deals

 

[annulen]

Unfortunately, there's no easy way in-game to forcibly convert other independent nations to Zoroastrianism, so you're basically stuck with subject nations. (Which will get you to tier 2 or 3 but probably not to tier 5.) This could be changed - eg. I think I saw a mission somewhere in SE Asia that allows forced conversion of anyone in a peace deal - and I think this would be another nice unlockable perk for all religions.

According to wiki, if you are playing for theocracy you can obtain Great Holy War CB via government reform, which allows forced convertion of heathens. Don't know if this counts as "easy" for you, but I think it's an adequate price for such an ambitious goal as becoming Zoroastrian DotF.

Own 100 core provinces of your religion and, if they exist, own all holy sites and convert them to your religion -> DotF unlocked for your religion

I think it would make more sense to unlock it when you convert certain number of nations without making them your vassals, e.g. when there are 5 independent nations in the world following religion (including you).

 

[jonjowett]

According to wiki, if you are playing for theocracy you can obtain Great Holy War CB via government reform, which allows forced convertion of heathens. Don't know if this counts as "easy" for you, but I think it's an adequate price for such an ambitious goal as becoming Zoroastrian DotF.

Ah yes, I think I saw that option in a previous run, but I've never taken it.

The thing is, the special "feudal theocracy" tier-1 government reform for Persia is very nice (+1 missionary!) - switching to a theocracy seems like a significant downgrade, especially as you'll have to wait a long time to unlock the great holy war. It's even worse if you formed the Mughals.

Also, this reform is blocked for all Pagans. (So, no global crusade as Fetishist, even if you've conquered all of Africa. Ditto as a Tengri Mongol Empire.)

I think it would make more sense to unlock it when you convert certain number of nations without making them your vassals, e.g. when there are 5 independent nations in the world following religion (including you).

Unfortunately, this is very easy to cheese:

• Early-game: Make 4 tiny zoroastrian vassals and grant them independence. (Preferably "internal vassals" who are completely surrounded by your nation. Seize land or feed them land as necessary. Don't forget to convert all their provinces so they don't revert!) Unlcok DotF, and become DotF. Reconquer the released vassals once the truce expires.
• Late-game: Create 4 landlocked OPM client states, grant independence, unlock DotF, reconquer them 10 years later.