Allow to play Aztecs in ironmam mode [Add new bookmark]

[tkamin]

Currentlly there is no possibility to play Aztecs in ironman mode, because there is no start point with the Aztecs character avialable.
The old method to play as Aztecs, based on running the game as any character, waiting for Aztecs horde to arrive and switching to them, is not supported by ironman, because the played character cannot be changed when ironman mode is played.

The solution would be to add new bookmark, when the Sunset Invasion is enabled, with the one province conquered by the Aztecs in the similiar way as it is done in The Mongols bookmark. The similiar suggestion was previous posted on this forum (link), but was rejected.

I think it should be reconsidered because now the owners of Sunset Invasion DLC and Old Golds DLC are unable to use one of the feature (play as Aztecs) with the ironman mode. This is very similiar to Rule Designer problem, which was confirmed to be fixed by the Doomark on live stream. Also there is achievment "Holy Smoke" for Aztecs present, so I think there were considered to be playable.

 

[Helkoi]

Quite true if you ask me. With Old Gods and Sunset Invasion, it seems clear to me that they are playable and the achievement that you have shown is in that way.
So it might be very nice to add a new start date, i'm quite in favor of that idea !

 

[rbc1989]

What about people who don't have Sunset Invasion? They won't have the portraits or anything.

 

[tkamin]

What about people who don't have Sunset Invasion? They won't have the portraits or anything.

The solution would be to add new bookmark, when the Sunset Invasion is enabled (...).

The new bookmark should be visible only for people with Sunset Invasion DLC as the 867 bookmark is only available when The Old Gods are enabled.

 

[Roguedemon]

+1 for an Aztec bookmark. I don't think it would take much time to add, just give them a random province in western Europe (Iceland, Ireland or the Canaries, perhaps) and leave it at that - no need for a complex rework of rulers or anything.

This is very similiar to Rule Designer problem, which was confirmed to be fixed by the Doomark on live stream.

Are they allowing you to play designed characters in Ironman now? I though not being able to play them was WAD, but I'd be really happy if you could.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

Also there is achievment "Holy Smoke" for Aztecs present, so I think there were considered to be playable.

Aztecs aren't the only pagans able to perform human sacrifice.

 

[tkamin]

Are they allowing you to play designed characters in Ironman now? I though not being able to play them was WAD, but I'd be really happy if you could.

You will be able to play ironman with designed characters, but you will not get achievments.

Aztecs aren't the only pagans able to perform human sacrifice.

But descirption of the achievment "Holy Smoke: Sacrifice another religion's head as a Norse or Aztec pagan." suggests that it should be obtainable by Aztecs, so they are supposed to be playable in ironman.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I think it's some sort of oversight and every nation which is playable in normal game should be playable also in ironman mode (which is great idea, although I've been playing ironman style long before the mode was implemented).

 

[Roguedemon]

You will be able to play ironman with designed characters, but you will not get achievments.

I'm not overly bothered about the acheivements - they are nice, but not the biggest draw of ironman by a long way. Hopefully, if they can separate acheivements from ironman mode they might allow us to play mods in Ironman too, but I'm really happy just to hear that ruler designed characters are going to be available.

 

[HMatsunaga54]

What if you do the method of waiting for the invasion and swear fealty to the Aztecs, then have an heir educated in Aztec religion and culture

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

What if you do the method of waiting for the invasion and swear fealty to the Aztecs, then have an heir educated in Aztec religion and culture

This. You can't play as the actual invaders, but there's nothing stopping you from acquiring the Aztec religion some time after it appears on the map, so it's not like it's impossible to get the achievement.

 

[Saintrl]

This. You can't play as the actual invaders, but there's nothing stopping you from acquiring the Aztec religion some time after it appears on the map, so it's not like it's impossible to get the achievement.

Yes, since the Aztec flavor events are culture related you could theoretically make yourself a vassal of the Aztecs when they arrive and the convert to their culture and religion in Ironman. Seems a lot of trouble go through just to get Aztec features though.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

This. You can't play as the actual invaders, but there's nothing stopping you from acquiring the Aztec religion some time after it appears on the map, so it's not like it's impossible to get the achievement.

Like I said earlier, it is my strong opinion that you should be able to play as everyone who you can play in non-ironman game also in ironman game. Either they should give option to legally tag switch to Aztec Empire when they arrive or make separate start date where you can play as Aztec Empire. Playing as ruler designer Aztec or pledging vassalage to them isn't the same game experience as conquering the Europe with the Aztec hordes.

 

[tkamin]

This. You can't play as the actual invaders, but there's nothing stopping you from acquiring the Aztec religion some time after it appears on the map, so it's not like it's impossible to get the achievement.

But the point of playing Aztecs, as Mongols, is to play as invaders.

 

[Ols]

The difficulty of giving them one or two counties for one day is that it'll show up on the title history, and presumably it'd involve a ruler being uprooted and then reinstalled. The only way I could see it justified would be to have the Sunset Invasion start a couple of months or more after the last start in 1337, so that it appears as an isolated bookmark that has no impact on the "real" history in game. You could then reasonably believe that since the last start point in 1337, the Aztecs arrived, sold their feathers and beads, and then landed the invasion force, establishing your beachhead. This start date would then be akin to the Old Gods one, insofar as that you couldn't tab to it normally, by advancing the calendar. It would mean that, while the history files would include this alternate timeline, they'd be completely isolated from people who declined to buy Sunset Invasion and don't want to see any alternate history ingame. At the same time, you'd still have just over 100 years to play as the Aztec Empire, while is enough time for a total victory.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

The difficulty of giving them one or two counties for one day is that it'll show up on the title history, and presumably it'd involve a ruler being uprooted and then reinstalled. The only way I could see it justified would be to have the Sunset Invasion start a couple of months or more after the last start in 1337, so that it appears as an isolated bookmark that has no impact on the "real" history in game. You could then reasonably believe that since the last start point in 1337, the Aztecs arrived, sold their feathers and beads, and then landed the invasion force, establishing your beachhead. This start date would then be akin to the Old Gods one, insofar as that you couldn't tab to it normally, by advancing the calendar. It would mean that, while the history files would include this alternate timeline, they'd be completely isolated from people who declined to buy Sunset Invasion and don't want to see any alternate history ingame. At the same time, you'd still have just over 100 years to play as the Aztec Empire, while is enough time for a total victory.

Creating alternative start dates for ahistorical scenarios which don't mess the main history isn't impossible. Hearts of Iron 2: Armageddon had two such scenarios and both Europa Universalis I and II had one such scenario.

 

[Ols]

None of those use the Clausewitz engine though, so they? I don't know whether history files can be written to have alternate timelines now.

 

[Rozmarzony]

You will be able to play ironman with designed characters, but you will not get achievments.



But descirption of the achievment "Holy Smoke: Sacrifice another religion's head as a Norse or Aztec pagan." suggests that it should be obtainable by Aztecs, so they are supposed to be playable in ironman.

Do you know that even in ironman you can wait for them, swear fealty to them, change culture and sacrifice someone?

 

[tkamin]

None of those use the Clausewitz engine though, so they? I don't know whether history files can be written to have alternate timelines now.

I agree that the existence of Aztecs boorkmark should not influence normal history.

From the other side: I have bought the Sunset Invasion and The Old Golds DLCs, so I can play as Aztecs (also controling the invasion), and after the ironman mode was added to the game, I should be able to play them in ironman. If it is not possible with current engine, then it should be modyfied to allow that, one way or another.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

None of those use the Clausewitz engine though, so they? I don't know whether history files can be written to have alternate timelines now.

I mentioned those because those are ahistorical, but making separate scenarios isn't impossible. Hearts of Iron 3 has historical battlescenarios which use different set up than the main scenario and don't have all the nations in them. And even more CKII related example is EUIV, where converted CKII games don't mess the main timeline, but use their own history instead.