Allied Poland w/ German Military Access???

[unmerged(19200)]

Playing 1.06 VH/F as Germany. Trying a new diplomatic approach towards Poland i ecnountered 2 issues. I influenced the heck out them bringing their alignment solidly axis. I noticed:

1) Once they were aligned axis the demand territory box dimmed. Is this normal?

2) They granted miltiary access in 1937, then after historic Anchluss & Munich events they agreed to an alliance w/ the Allies.

My hopes had been to

1) Make them so Axis friendly they'd give me Danzig. (Spoiled by a dimmed button.)

2) Keep them aligned so far to the axis side they'd refuse the Allied alliance. (Spoiled by historic outcome.)

What gives? Was this plain bad luck on a random event? Why is it a nation can first give me military access then join the Allies and never cancel military access? A bug?

Finally, is there any point to spending precious DI on Poland as Germany???

GTG21

 

[unmerged(18256)]

To be honest.. all that suck! There's is no use at all spending DI's trying to influence any nation at all if you don't succeed with a coup.
Any nation, no matter how nazified they are, will turn up voting for reformed socialist or whatever.. which is stupid. I actually don't think any fascist would vote like that.

 

[Raczynski]

But you're only influencing policy of their government, not people's will for god's sake! I thought it was clear for everyone

 

[unmerged(19200)]

But you're only influencing policy of their government, not people's will for god's sake! I thought it was clear for everyone

My point exactly. If their gov't is influenced to the point of being Axis aligned, then how can they 1) not be asked to cede territory, 2) grant military access then join another alliance and then never cancel military access?

Its bunk. You think they'd reject the offer, hoping Germany will ask them to join the Axis. (of course the real reason I was DI'ing them so much was so I could attack in the West first, then the East all at once (i.e. Poland onto Russia in one sweep) and never intended to ask for alliance). <-- And telling me the AI knew this is NOT a response!

GTG

 

[unmerged(3221)]

The game doesn't handle unexpected things well. Your strategy was unexpected and there are only so many scripted ways to try to handle things. Just look at some of the variations people have posted on these boards about Poland and Germany. Then try to figure out some way to get the AI to react to all of these possibilities.

Military access is also unrealistic in HOI. In a 1.06 game I saw Turkey grant military access to all three alliances. The Italians use it to start fighting in Lebanon and completely neglected to supply their troops in Libya. The AI can not handle military access or unusual strategies.

 

[unmerged(18256)]

But you're only influencing policy of their government, not people's will for god's sake! I thought it was clear for everyone

So if it is the gouvernment, a 100% nazified party of reformed socialist should indeed be more Axis friendly, should they not? Instead of joining the allies or granting them military access they should join the Axis?

But oh no, they don't. That's why influencing is useless if you dont make a coup so they will turn fascist. That's of course not any guarantee either, they could still jump on the allied bandwagon, but more likely at least.

 

[cdat]

Influence them to the axis, then DoW them.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

The territorial claims are still there (check diplomatic mode info box), it's just that nations allied with one another show up on the diplomatic map as green, and that overrides the territorial claim green. But it's still there. If they were to leave the Axis, it would appear the same as before. But again, just go into diplo mode, select Germany, and you will see they still have claims on Poland. It's just not visible on the map, since them being your 'ally' takes presidence over that issue.

Don't ally with Poland. Conquer it. And as far as demanding territory from an ally (in this case Danzig from Poland), I think you can still do it, maybe worth a try.

But, as a rule of thumb, when playing as Germany, never ally with anyone. Always go in alone. Japan, Italy, eveyone. Spank them all. None of them are worthy. There are no real 'allies' you can trust. Kill them all, and conquer the world. Nazi Germany is not supposed to be 'diplomatic'.

 

[unmerged(18513)]

Actually... I would still ally with Hungary, Rumania and Bulgaria... simple reason is that it will give more manpower and that lovely Rumanian oil every year... Italy can be a question, but well tecked up they are usually able to hold their own and win against the brits.

 

[unmerged(19200)]

The territorial claims are still there (check diplomatic mode info box), it's just that nations allied with one another show up on the diplomatic map as green, and that overrides the territorial claim green.

Don't ally with Poland. Conquer it. And as far as demanding territory from an ally (in this case Danzig from Poland), I think you can still do it, maybe worth a try.

Yeah I see that the territorial demands are still there, but the problem is the "Demand Territory" button/option is dimmed. I have over 10 DI but it seems once you DI a nation to your "sphere" you can't demand territory from them. Is this true or a bug in my game???

As for not using diplomacy with Germany, I don't agree. I personally think the diplomatic aspects are under utilized in the game and hope for improvements in HOI2. Historically the Germans spent enormous efforts exerting themselves diplomatically throughout the Balkans and other areas of the globe. Granted, some of their "diplomacy" was illegal (i.e. Czech) but generally, prewar, there was an ideaology race among diplomatic circles to align as many nations as possible into one camp or another.

I don't see how the AI should be overwhelmed by German overtures to Poland. If anything, if you want to view the game from the spheres of influence perspective (which i think is wrong to start with but not the point) Poland should have just as much a chance as going Axis, Allied or Commie given their location and historic considerations.

Generally it seems the whole diplomatic aspect of the game needs tweaking, or has been mooted by 1.06 sphere of influence mods.

 

[unmerged(17791)]

You can't demand territory from your allies, that's right. I have personally never allied with anyone I had calims on, so I'd forgotten that. But it makes sense. What doesn't make sense, though - is Germany being allied with Poland.

 

[unmerged(3221)]

You can't demand territory from your allies, that's right. I have personally never allied with anyone I had calims on, so I'd forgotten that. But it makes sense. What doesn't make sense, though - is Germany being allied with Poland.

You can demand territory from your allies. Austria or the Czechs can choose to ally rather than be annexed. You can then demand territory from them (Austria eventually says Yes while the Czechs refuse).

The Poland demand issue is complicated by the timing of the national claim. Germany has no claims on Polish territory until the Danzig crisis. Maybe because of that, the national claims are also screwed up. As usual in HOI, as soon as you do something very different, the scripted rules can't handle it well.

But I do agree that allying with Poland doesn't make sense. Neither does all those other strategies of using Poland as a buffer between Germany and the Soviet Union. Just annex Poland and focus your attention elsewhere.

 

[unmerged(16966)]

Another Poland exploit

I know that in 1.06 as Russia its pretty much a cake walk to defeat Germany now, but its even easier if you use the trick of loaning all of your forces to Poland, and teching up the poles when germany attacks. Than I will bring my forces back into Russia, one by one, re up the manpower, since Poland doesnt have it to give me, than send them back into the fight. I put up Germany taking Poland till late 1940, and they suffer grievace losses. Than Germany never gets into France, and when Germany declared war on me for attacking Finland, the was a short struggle but I eventually rolled into Berlin. I dunno how many people use this exploit, but its pretty ahistorical. Hordes of Russian soldiers fighting along side the Poles.

 

[unmerged(19200)]

But I do agree that allying with Poland doesn't make sense. Neither does all those other strategies of using Poland as a buffer between Germany and the Soviet Union. Just annex Poland and focus your attention elsewhere.

In the current game Im running (1.06) using Poland as a buffer is working quite well actually. The Poles have granted me (Germany) military access and from positions in that country I can launch any attack I want against the Russians with no harassment from Russian airpower. To make it even better, the Russian AI has amassed over 200+ divisions in Latvia/Lithuania and has only 5!! along their entire central front. I tested to see if the AI would change dispositions if I amassed troops in Poland, but it doesnt seem to notice the German buildup in a nonbeligerent Poland (3mos. so far and no Russian response to over 250+ german divisions in East Poland).

To me, playing as Germany, keeping a buffer b/t Russia is always the best bet considering how in 1.06 they always DOW me way earlier than one would hope (usually when Im deep inside France). This prevents the game from fast forwarding to a huge Eastern front war (which if won by Germany signals the end of the game IMHO) and allows side ventures into Africa, Mid East and other areas a player could only dream of going if involved in a war in the East. For that flexibility alone, I think the strategy is worth it.

I do ALMOST feel like Im cheating here...until I think back to all the 1.06 nightmares Ive had on the Eastern Front. Serves the Reds right this time around!!!

 

[unmerged(19200)]

But I do agree that allying with Poland doesn't make sense.

Somehow, somewhere I think people got the impression I was allied with Poland or another country in my initial post. In fact Im not allied with anyone, just influencing countries into the Axis sphere.

I agree with the approach, when playing as Germany, never to ally with anyone. It makes the political map much more fun to look at!

 

[unmerged(25977)]

I'm pretty new here, and I've never tried invading someone from a country which has given me military access. If I were to try that, would I still be able to trace a supply line back to my home provinces through the country from which I invaded without actually being allied with them?

 

[unmerged(27082)]

yes, but

Yes, supplies are okay, but oil doesn't always seem to get through.

 

[unmerged(24708)]

military access 'n alliances

Hi , I find a few things funny but first, actually the german friendly poland is historically accurate, the poles wanted assistance vs the reds. The inaccuracy lies in the consistent occurance of the M-R pact. That was bascially due to a cold Britain vs france if france alligned itself with russia.

The military access utilization is what allows easy conquest of USA/Russia in, well '37, '38. The quirk is to DoW their ally instead of the one you've got MA through (libera for US, tannu-tuva for the soviets). air units relocate, land forces doesn't...
(I've put my army at all their victory locations prior to dow.)
The log distance was a problem, but portugal is fachist and thus a "legal" target, puppet them and you've got the azores providing supplies. Although after the drop to max 66, it aint no problem any longer.

I think Hoi2 should really do a major rework of the diplomacy system. it's too rigid and inflexible.

that's my 2 cents.

 

[Dawnfire]

Don't ally with Poland. Conquer it. And as far as demanding territory from an ally (in this case Danzig from Poland), I think you can still do it, maybe worth a try.

But, as a rule of thumb, when playing as Germany, never ally with anyone. Always go in alone. Japan, Italy, eveyone. Spank them all. None of them are worthy. There are no real 'allies' you can trust. Kill them all, and conquer the world. Nazi Germany is not supposed to be 'diplomatic'.

From the sense of maximizing your VP potential in the game, perhaps. But don't tell me what I'm 'supposed' to be with any country.

I personally would like to occasionally play games with Germany where I wish to make an alliance of many different nations to withstand the Soviet Hordes, US Hordes, or just for the heck of it.

If I spend enormous effort to get Poland close into that alliance, then we should be allied. The game does not allow me to do this, so it's bad.

 

[unmerged(24708)]

From the sense of maximizing your VP potential in the game, perhaps. But don't tell me what I'm 'supposed' to be with any country.

I personally would like to occasionally play games with Germany where I wish to make an alliance of many different nations to withstand the Soviet Hordes, US Hordes, or just for the heck of it.

If I spend enormous effort to get Poland close into that alliance, then we should be allied. The game does not allow me to do this, so it's bad.

Juy man, you should.

Perhaps be able to follow hitlers own statement, if we cannot take power by use of violence we'll do it legally. And instead of war, perhaps an early European union? with military alliances? United States of Europe?

Would be nifty