Allied Joint Operations Meeting

[atm]

In the following analysis, i use hypothetical numbers to show the principles of how I view our situation.

Assume our European forces have less numbers and less total 'power' than axis ones. This means that it is in our interest to fight on a narrow, as small as possible front, where their numbers don't make a difference since there is only so much soldiers you can put on a length of a frontline. This means that if we have 100 divisions and axis has 200, fighting on a aprroximate 15 province wide front(Le Grand Baguette), around 50-ish divisions can be engaged in combat at the same time without stacking penalties working in our favour. We also have forts and rivers, which would make our soldier worth 2 of them or something similiar, therefore we would be at a stalemate.

Now, if we decide to shift 30 divisions to Africa, Axis would need to shift only 30 divisions as well, since we do not have an advantageous position, and here our soldier will be worth approximately the same as an axis one. If we do this, before this situation there were 2 axis soldiers for one of ours in Europe, but after this there will be 2.5 axis for every one of us. See where I am going ? Doing this actually goes in favour of Axis forces. Indeed if I was Germany I would even try to fake weakness to give the brits confidence that they can shift troops to Africa thereby removing them from France.
Only if our forces are comparable size to axis ones, will it become feasible to defend Africa. Either that, or if Africa defense would require a relatively low amount of troops like 10 divisions or so

I understand your viewpoint however the more forces they move to Africa better because they will bleed heavily. You have to understand that more troops in Africa means more convoys necessary to keep them supplied which means more meterial and supplies destroyed by combined French and British Navy.

And fun part is that Germans doesnt have ports in meddterranean which leaves only Italy able to reasonably supply their troops still with heavy looses on convoys. And as was mentioned in WWW, ALL equipment, materials and supplies are destroyed when convoy is sunk. German convoys wont make it through English channel and Medditerranean at all. Which leaves Italy to try challenge us in Africa and if they put big amount of units there they will starve to death.

Compared to them Allies with control of the sea and Commonwealth nations adding focus on ASW we should be ok and more troops enemy has in Africa better for us.

And I agree with your analysis of European theater, if maginot line is extended and fort level is maxed it doesnt matter if enemy has double or triple amount of troops until we have at least 2 divisions in all provinces on maginot line and several in back to rotate.

 

[Jepperino]

I think we should make Italy feel confident in Africa by letting them land divisions in Libya and then we can strike their convoys and starve them of supplies while they are stranded in Africa and getting wiped out by well supplied Allied troops. Spain would be crucial to not be in Axis here so that Britain can maintain control of Gibraltar (and in turn the Mediterranean) to pull this strategy off.

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

Hm yes, if we are sure that we are able to cut Italy off from Africa and destroy their divisions there then it might be beneficial to do so. However, if we reach a stalemate in Africa, that works in their favour since they are fighting our troops on equal grounds, without us having huge bonuses. I'd like to point out that if we don't have naval superiority, then our convoys going to Malta garrisons are easy pickings for axis navy AND airforce, so we have to have some kind of naval superiority in order for Malta not to be a dead weight eating our convoys.
But if we can achieve naval superiority, then a lightly defended Malta might be 'better' for us than a heavily defended one.

It is possible that while we are occupied by something important, lets say Axis naval invasion of Portugal or backdooring France, Italy might have already bombed Malta forts to bits, and their marines could take it without much trouble while our navy is distracted. Having a large garrison there(its one province so one corps without penalties i think) would mean their eventual destruction if Italy commits. But in a heavily fortified malta scenario, it would be harder for us to retake it back...

So in short, Italy can't take Malta if we have naval superiority.

If we don't have naval superiority, best case scenario is that our convoys ocasionally get sinked trying to supply the garrison there, and in the worst case scenario italy takes it from us, and we won't be able to take it back.

This makes me think that we shouldn't commit lots of resources trying to fortify Malta and instead invest in something more useful, however if brits have nothing better to do with their civilian factories then go ahead.

 

[atm]

Well my former plan is to split Royal navy into 8-9 groups.

1) German blockade group - Heavy ships with Carrier support and some screens
- Search end destroy mission in North sea and English channel
- cuts out Kriegsmarine
2) Italy blockade group - Heavy ships with Carrier support and some screens
- Search eand destroy mission around Italy
- cuts out Regia marina
3) ASW group I (in reality many smaller groups)- Longer range destroyers and light cruisers
- Protect convoy missions on critical convoys
4) ASW group II (in reality many smaller groups) - older shorter range destroyers and light cruisers
- Patrol mission all over the place to try to catch subs
5) Amphibious landing support group consisting with few battle ships and screens
- Provides fire support during amphibious operations
6) Convoy raiders North sea - group of heavy/battle cruisers
- Convoy raiding of all potential German convoys
7) Convoy raiders Medditerranean - group of heavy/battle cruisers
- Convoy raiding of all potential Italian convoys
8) Convoy raiders Asia - subs
- Convoy raiding of all potential Japanese convoys
9) Recon group - ships with modern radars
- Which will be used under direct control to be able to find home port of enemy navies and check on them from time to time if they havent passed the blockade

So plan counts with full naval supperiority in Medditerranean = Italian invasion of Malta wont be possible unless Italy blockade group is taken out of picture.

What do you guys think?

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

tasks 1 and 2 might prove difficult. We need to find a way to properly organize British, French, Canadian and rest of commowealth fleets.

 

[atm]

You are right, well eventually my thoughts were that French navy as a whole can serve as one of the first two groups but on second thought France should purely focus on ground to be able to survive...thats why I scratched it so in reality they will have quite big navy but it will be mostly obsolete...

However even obsolete battleship can provide excellent amphibious support and even obsolete destroyer can protect nicely short range convoys....

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

In HOI3 France has carriers, and if French fleet is used for task 2, along with britain's support, it might achieve superiority in the med. In this case, French casualties are acceptable unless we are talking about that carrier, heh.

 

[atm]

In HOI3 France has carriers, and if French fleet is used for task 2, along with britain's support, it might achieve superiority in the med. In this case, French casualties are acceptable unless we are talking about that carrier, heh.

It has 1 CV, 3 BB, 7 CA, 7 CL, 52 DD and 57 SS at the start, but it is not a top modern fleet. However, it is strong enough to decisively defeat either the Germans or the Italians alone, but would have have no chance against a combined axis fleet

source: wiki

 

[Gerhard Lindt]

The french fleet can fight the Italian fleet with a little help from The UK as France should focus on its army not its navy but the British fleet can easily beet the German navy.

 

[GamesPlayers]

Naval Bombers could also help in these battles with a little investment in them.

 

[danoh]

The strategic question of Spain for the British comes down to whether invading Spain will or will not help protect Gibraltar. If you think you can build an Allied Army that can stop Germany in France, then you should invade Spain. But if you think Germany is going to win in France even if you secure Spain and free up all those French divisions along the Pyrenees to fight in Northwest France, then you should leave Spain neutral. The British Attacking Spain opens up Spain to German conquest, and after France falls, Germany typically has nothing better to do for a few months until the forces are ready to invade Russia.

 

[Jepperino]

We should respect the neutrality of Spain and if possible make a friend of them as it would help greatly and let us free up many divisions. We should however be prepared to defend ourselves if Spain shows large signs of joining the Axis.
Also as the Portuguese player it would be a large worry off my army and would let me help out on a larger scale around the globe if Spain were to join the Allies.

 

[GamesPlayers]

We should respect the neutrality of Spain and if possible make a friend of them as it would help greatly and let us free up many divisions. We should however be prepared to defend ourselves if Spain shows large signs of joining the Axis.
Also as the Portuguese player it would be a large worry off my army and would let me help out on a larger scale around the globe if Spain were to join the Allies.

the best way to ensure that they stay Neutral is by supporting them early on and maybe in the Spanish civil war.
that way we build a good relation with the Spanish goverment and people.

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

My friends, protectors of the bastions of democracy, I must disappoint you. Recently it has come to my attention that the false song of fascism can lull even the greatest minds to cooperation. The Nazis are, of course, gathering scientists and engineers to build a base on the Moon. It is of my opinion that we cannot let them achieve superiority in STEM pursuits, so, at the sixth of July, when this campaign is supposed to be starting, I will be acquiring and proving my education, via the forms of studying for tests.
Taken into considerations recent swellings in the ranks of Forumites, I trust you to find a suitable replacement for a NON-COMMUNIST, DEMOCRATIC French leader. I do hope that I will participate in later wargames, and the formation of further plans, if any.

Viva la France!

 

[Lolkar]

My friends, protectors of the bastions of democracy, I must disappoint you. Recently it has come to my attention that the false song of fascism can lull even the greatest minds to cooperation. The Nazis are, of course, gathering scientists and engineers to build a base on the Moon. It is of my opinion that we cannot let them achieve superiority in STEM pursuits, so, at the sixth of July, when this campaign is supposed to be starting, I will be acquiring and proving my education, via the forms of studying for tests.
Taken into considerations recent swellings in the ranks of Forumites, I trust you to find a suitable replacement for a NON-COMMUNIST, DEMOCRATIC French leader. I do hope that I will participate in later wargames, and the formation of further plans, if any.

Viva la France!

I wish you good luck with your tests. I have mine at the 8th of June, but after this i will be free for 100% time. I President Beneš can substitute you when you will be gone and maybe after some time rightful leader of democratic France can return back. Good luck my friend, good luck.

 

[GamesPlayers]

it might be smart to put a request on the neutral forumpost. then more people see it and we will have a player for France in no time.

 

[atm]

My friends, protectors of the bastions of democracy, I must disappoint you. Recently it has come to my attention that the false song of fascism can lull even the greatest minds to cooperation. The Nazis are, of course, gathering scientists and engineers to build a base on the Moon. It is of my opinion that we cannot let them achieve superiority in STEM pursuits, so, at the sixth of July, when this campaign is supposed to be starting, I will be acquiring and proving my education, via the forms of studying for tests.
Taken into considerations recent swellings in the ranks of Forumites, I trust you to find a suitable replacement for a NON-COMMUNIST, DEMOCRATIC French leader. I do hope that I will participate in later wargames, and the formation of further plans, if any.

Viva la France!

Good luck with tests, I see Lolkar will be able to replace you for time being. Let us know when you want to hop on democratic train again.