Allied Joint Operations Meeting

[Viktor_Vertex]

Axis plans assume naval superiority and a quick taking of British isles.... Shows how detached from reality they really are .
On a more serious note, there is a non-zero probability of them temporarily managing to occupy France and we should reach agreement if and when do we decide that Grand baguette is collapsing (however unlikely that be), and when to start evacuating French troops into GB. Hell, we might even cede naval superiority to them intentionally so that they try to invade GB. We might even build POW camps right next to the beaches to save us the trouble of marching millions of axis prisoners that try to come...

 

[atm]

I agree with the focus on Africa and Secondary on Asia. Main goal of British fleet will be to keep Italian and German navy in ports and ideally destroy them.

Regarding sparking a war I would not move back against axis an inch which means dont accept Munich treaty because sooner we can intervene the better.

Regarding plans and focus for GB, I think Gibraltar and Mediteranean must be defended at all costs and it will also be part of its focus. Otherwise its army should be engaged in Africa to prevent Suez from falling into enemy hends meaning also heavy fortification work there. After this is done a focus towards colonial empire starts to make sense.

Naval superiority will be main focus of GB until the US joins war, afterwards focus can be changed to more airforce and army.

 

[GamesPlayers]

Naval superiority will be main focus of GB until the US joins war, afterwards focus can be changed to more airforce and army.

countries like Canada can help in the naval superiority by building Destroyers and possibly Light cruisers (perhaps for Lend-lease if possible) while smaller allied countries make equipment for land forces and special forces like Marines and Mountain infantry.

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

Regarding plans and focus for GB, I think Gibraltar and Mediteranean must be defended at all costs and it will also be part of its focus. Otherwise its army should be engaged in Africa to prevent Suez from falling into enemy hends meaning also heavy fortification work there. After this is done a focus towards colonial empire starts to make sense.

Why exactly, do we care about Africa while Portugal, France and Spain have a chance of standing ?
I believe our main focus should be Europe, then Asia, then Africa.
Sure, if France falls we might shift focus back to mediterranean and Africa, but why should we care about them while France still stands ?
If Axis commits, then great, we might send forces to keep them tied up, but in my opinion, Africa is the least important theatre, since whoever wins in Europe will win in Africa, while there is a potential for permanent border change in Asia...

 

[danoh]

I would only encourage you to think more aggressively with your British attack on Spain. How will you run the pre-war intelligence and diplomacy so you have the option to DoW Franco?

Assuming you have that worked out by the time Germany attacks Poland, Britain should be able to build a focused land army and defeat Spain quickly. Forget the rope-a-dope in southern France; attack Spain directly. Two mountain corps for the Pyrenees, an Armored Corps to exploit out of Gibraltar, a marine Corps to hop along the coast taking key v.p. ports, and a few infantry corps to hold what your spearheads take.

Assuming you get all that built I would plan on eliminating Spain in 30-40 days. Then you have a first-rate army in plenty of time to reinforce France, or even start thinking about attacking Italy.

 

[atm]

Focus on Europe, yes if France can build up extended Maginot line on time and in correct place (use rivers) it should be able to hold out but has no chance of pushing back against combined forces of Germany, Italy and Poland on ground and British navy must protect France against naval invasion which will circumvent defensive line and encyrcle troops which means it has to maintain Naval Superiority in Mediterranean and North Sea therefore it will have to split main battleforce to contain Italian and German fleet.

This will probably mean use 2/3 of Royal navy for search and destroy operations in these zones. Remainder of British fleet has no chance to stay its ground against IJN and it will be disaster to face it. So only opportunity is to try and crush Italian and German fleet before moving against IJN however this can be countered by Germany and Italy just by sitting their main fleets in harbor but still just tying up 2/3 of royal navy. I am not sure how effective naval bombers will be on base strike opperations.

Thats why I am not sure it is good idea to focus on Asia, support Raj by troops ok but navy can´t hold against IJN carriers without compromising safety of France and GB homeland.

So yes if France holds the line GB will operate in Europe but cant do much except for taking over Italian islands in medditerranean and taking over Africa and therefore cutting out additional resources from Axis. Also we have to hold Suez and Gibraltar, this way we will be able to intercept and destroy any convoys between Japan and its Axis allies. Therefore I think it is more important to focus on Africa, clean it out of Italian hands and if this is done move focus to Asia if Italian and German navies are out of the picture.

However I am open to discuss this strategy.

 

[atm]

Regarding Spain, as far as I know it is neutral, if not plan is already in place and will be performed. Also interesting point on British decision tree is securing Irak and Iran, considering Iran plans to be part of axis it will allow Britain to wipe one axis nation even before hell breaks loose in Europe. Whats your opinion on this?

 

[atm]

And regarding possibility to DoW, well thats why I mentioned not a step back to axis, more world tension we generate, even by claiming Irak as Britain better for allies because they will be able to intervene sooner.

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

In the following analysis, i use hypothetical numbers to show the principles of how I view our situation.

Assume our European forces have less numbers and less total 'power' than axis ones. This means that it is in our interest to fight on a narrow, as small as possible front, where their numbers don't make a difference since there is only so much soldiers you can put on a length of a frontline. This means that if we have 100 divisions and axis has 200, fighting on a aprroximate 15 province wide front(Le Grand Baguette), around 50-ish divisions can be engaged in combat at the same time without stacking penalties working in our favour. We also have forts and rivers, which would make our soldier worth 2 of them or something similiar, therefore we would be at a stalemate.

Now, if we decide to shift 30 divisions to Africa, Axis would need to shift only 30 divisions as well, since we do not have an advantageous position, and here our soldier will be worth approximately the same as an axis one. If we do this, before this situation there were 2 axis soldiers for one of ours in Europe, but after this there will be 2.5 axis for every one of us. See where I am going ? Doing this actually goes in favour of Axis forces. Indeed if I was Germany I would even try to fake weakness to give the brits confidence that they can shift troops to Africa thereby removing them from France.
Only if our forces are comparable size to axis ones, will it become feasible to defend Africa. Either that, or if Africa defense would require a relatively low amount of troops like 10 divisions or so

 

[Lolkar]

We cant them let connect Lybia, Ethiopia and Persia, that would be disaster in Africa. I think biggest part of Brittish army should be focused in France and Portugal. Africa could be guarded by commonwealth (Canada, SA and maybe Czechoslovaks). And off coarse Malta, Gib. should be garrisoned. And we need to be careful, they might try naval invasion to Marseille. With Asia until 1941 we will not have that much options, but Japan will try take Indonesia.

 

[Lolkar]

In the following analysis, i use hypothetical numbers to show the principles of how I view our situation.

Assume our European forces have less numbers and less total 'power' than axis ones. This means that it is in our interest to fight on a narrow, as small as possible front, where their numbers don't make a difference since there is only so much soldiers you can put on a length of a frontline. This means that if we have 100 divisions and axis has 200, fighting on a aprroximate 15 province wide front(Le Grand Baguette), around 50-ish divisions can be engaged in combat at the same time without stacking penalties working in our favour. We also have forts and rivers, which would make our soldier worth 2 of them or something similiar, therefore we would be at a stalemate.

Now, if we decide to shift 30 divisions to Africa, Axis would need to shift only 30 divisions as well, since we do not have an advantageous position, and here our soldier will be worth approximately the same as an axis one. If we do this, before this situation there were 2 axis soldiers for one of ours in Europe, but after this there will be 2.5 axis for every one of us. See where I am going ? Doing this actually goes in favour of Axis forces. Indeed if I was Germany I would even try to fake weakness to give the brits confidence that they can shift troops to Africa thereby removing them from France.
Only if our forces are comparable size to axis ones, will it become feasible to defend Africa. Either that, or if Africa defense would require a relatively low amount of troops like 10 divisions or so

We can defend Africa prety well with naval superiority. Countries like Canada, SA and Czechoslovakia can use their units. Portugal can spare some units if its not going to look that Spain joins axis. And provinces around Lybia can be easily fortified or we can quickly take Lybia and transport these forces into France.

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

We cant them let connect Lybia, Ethiopia and Persia, that would be disaster in Africa. I think biggest part of Brittish army should be focused in France and Portugal. Africa could be guarded by commonwealth (Canada, SA and maybe Czechoslovaks). And off coarse Malta, Gib. should be garrisoned. And we need to be careful, they might try naval invasion to Marseille. With Asia until 1941 we will not have that much options, but Japan will try take Indonesia.

Why is it such a bad thing if Lybia, Ethiopia and Persia get connected? Axis chances of long term survival are slim as is, and there ain't much of use in those parts of Africa that will significantly help them. Tactically, they aren't that valuable to us(if we decide to forfeit Africa) except in staging an invasion of Italy/Yugoslavia. If France falls, we can always retake African colonies, it's not like they can defend/supply with a huge army assuming allied naval superiority

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

We can defend Africa prety well with naval superiority. Countries like Canada, SA and Czechoslovakia can use their units. Portugal can spare some units if its not going to look that Spain joins axis. And provinces around Lybia can be easily fortified or we can quickly take Lybia and transport these forces into France.

But why do we want Lybia in the first place ? I agree, having africa is a nice thing, but only and only if we have a comparable number of available divisions as Axis does. If we are outnumbered, we make our stand in lvl10 forts, mountains, and behind rivers.

 

[Gerhard Lindt]

But why do we want Lybia in the first place ? I agree, having africa is a nice thing, but only and only if we have a comparable number of available divisions as Axis does. If we are outnumbered, we make our stand in lvl10 forts, mountains, and behind rivers.

Lybia is important because we can use that as an launching point for operation Husky. As much as we try it will propably be impossible to save Frane as Germany doesnt need to put men on the Polish border. The main point of fighting in France is to bleed the German MP and stall the Axis so that The US and USSR could get ready for war. In multiplayer France ussually doesnt last until 1942. But the Med will be a front between The UK and Italy till the end of the war.

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

Lybia is important because we can use that as an launching point for operation Husky. As much as we try it will propably be impossible to save Frane as Germany doesnt need to put men on the Polish border. The main point of fighting in France is to bleed the German MP and stall the Axis so that The US and USSR could get ready for war. In multiplayer France ussually doesnt last until 1942. But the Med will be a front between The UK and Italy till the end of the war.

Does MP usually have a whole human played commonwealth? Besides even if France falls and we manage to evacuate French army and ships, taking Med won't be hard at all

 

[Gerhard Lindt]

Does MP usually have a whole human played commonwealth? Besides even if France falls and we manage to evacuate French army and ships, taking Med won't be hard at all

Im starting to doubt that when an nation surrenders that the army stays. Im not sure but i belive all of the units will dissapear

 

[Viktor_Vertex]

Im starting to doubt that when an nation surrenders that the army stays. Im not sure but i belive all of the units will dissapear

The answer devs gave was that it disappears if the nation capitulates completely, which I don't think happens while you are in a faction. There is another thing to consider, that Franco-British union is a thing in HOI4

 

[thingol]

Im starting to doubt that when an nation surrenders that the army stays. Im not sure but i belive all of the units will dissapear

Well this is RP MP, if annexation instantly removes everything from that nation like in former HoI titles we could add a rule that annexation is not allowed unless that country lost all of its divisions or accepts annexation because they want to quit.

 

[GamesPlayers]

Well this is RP MP, if annexation instantly removes everything from that nation like in former HoI titles we could add a rule that annexation is not allowed unless that country lost all of its divisions or accepts annexation because they want to quit.

maybe it smart to discuss this also the Neutral forum. then we hear the opinion of all the other players on this.
we could also make that when you are occupied you join those players faction.

 

[Lolkar]

maybe it smart to discuss this also the Neutral forum. then we hear the opinion of all the other players on this.
we could also make that when you are occupied you join those players faction.

I dont want to join Axis, if i wanted that i would joined them from start not after annexation. I have never played as Axis in HOI3 and i dont want to start now. And im pretty sure units will not dissapear if they are in faction.