is this fixable? has anyone posted a formal bug report in the bug forum with a savegame showing "take point" not working, etc.? did it ever work? it's not some mod breaking it right (you're testing with no mods)?
Allied AI are still useless in wars
- Thread starter MustangNinjas
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is this fixable? has anyone posted a formal bug report in the bug forum with a savegame showing "take point" not working, etc.? did it ever work? it's not some mod breaking it right (you're testing with no mods)?
The AI isn't outright broken, in my current playthrough I've found my allies quite dependable, even reliable. They bring up their navy as they should, siege planets, invade them and move on. Whatever is causing them to freeze like this isn't because the "intelligence" isn't there, just that something is preventing them from acting.
I'm pretty sure it was just a placebo. You get the same result shouting at the screen.
Take point used to work 100% of the time and flawlessly from 1.0 to 1.9 I believe.
It has done absolutely nothing since.
I'm always toggling it on and off to make sure.
I love this game, but the federation ai is starting to really annoy me a lot.
I love playing pacifist builds, roleplaying people like the UFP, to stay out of wars and fight on a united front against tyranny etc etc.
However, the federation ai literally makes any federation builder playthrough a complete waste of time as when your declared upon or declaring, they literally do nothing. They will sit in their home starting systems and let weaker opponents take their space. It's quite something.
For me it simply means I can't play the game I want to play.
If they do ever fix it, which I'm doubtful, I don't want them to be OP either. There was a time where federation fleets were rediculously big.
What gets me is, they seem to do fine when not in a federation or in an ai-only one. why do they play so different when in one with a player?
Kinda annoying when the "federations" DLC just came out too.
If anyone has experience with glavius' ai or starnet I'd love to know if they have fixed this.
It has done absolutely nothing since.
I'm always toggling it on and off to make sure.
I love this game, but the federation ai is starting to really annoy me a lot.
I love playing pacifist builds, roleplaying people like the UFP, to stay out of wars and fight on a united front against tyranny etc etc.
However, the federation ai literally makes any federation builder playthrough a complete waste of time as when your declared upon or declaring, they literally do nothing. They will sit in their home starting systems and let weaker opponents take their space. It's quite something.
For me it simply means I can't play the game I want to play.
If they do ever fix it, which I'm doubtful, I don't want them to be OP either. There was a time where federation fleets were rediculously big.
What gets me is, they seem to do fine when not in a federation or in an ai-only one. why do they play so different when in one with a player?
Kinda annoying when the "federations" DLC just came out too.
If anyone has experience with glavius' ai or starnet I'd love to know if they have fixed this.
wow I'm surprised it's been broken so long. Can anyone link to the most recent bug report in the bug forum about it?
Best thing to do in the meantime is get a hegemony or military alliance and maximize fleet contribution. At least then you get control of a decent percentage of your members’ capacity.
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Sometimes I feel it's an issue with their logic. It becomes even more obvious when the Crisis hits: every fleet in the galaxy will be almost useless, never grouping up against the Crisis. Meanwhile, the Crisis itself, while still relatively passive, will kind of do their thing.
I wonder if the AI is doing its calculations using the entire non-AI fleet, no matter where they are in the galaxy, and thus avoiding conflict. This would kinda explain their behavior during the Crisis: the Crisis-Galaxy ratio is bigger than the Galaxy-Crisis one, therefore the Crisis will at least do something and the Galaxy will just stand still until someone (you lol) kill part of their fleets, even if they are all in different quadrants of the map.
I also wonder if opening up the L-Gate makes this worse.
I wonder if the AI is doing its calculations using the entire non-AI fleet, no matter where they are in the galaxy, and thus avoiding conflict. This would kinda explain their behavior during the Crisis: the Crisis-Galaxy ratio is bigger than the Galaxy-Crisis one, therefore the Crisis will at least do something and the Galaxy will just stand still until someone (you lol) kill part of their fleets, even if they are all in different quadrants of the map.
I also wonder if opening up the L-Gate makes this worse.
the awakened empires in War in Heaven do the exact opposite of the regular empires. Ie regular empires shotgun small raiding fleets everywhere. The AEs doomstack their fleets but hardly attack anything, and when they do, they punch in a few systems and then retreat.
it should be the total opposite, because a Awakened empire’s raiding fleet is super deadly on its own.
It’s not just allied AI, the military AI just randomly doesn’t work sometimes in the new version. I just had a war against a fanatic purifier. After rolling through half its empire without any opposition, I toggled to observer mode to see that it had more fleet power than I do - and all of it was just parked on starbases with no orders.
There is no version of the way this logic is supposed to work that explains it - it’s just broken.
There is no version of the way this logic is supposed to work that explains it - it’s just broken.
Take Point has worked prior to 2.2 and the AI used it for its allies as well.
It's a powerful tool for every empire. I hope they fix it in 2.6.3 finally.
Finished FP game and looks AI just "forgets" about some fleets - they just sit at random star base and doing nothing - not even flee before bigger fleet. And this small 2-3-6k fleet pieces can be crucial in war for AI.
A possible way to improve this would be to expose the AI decision making as described in this dev diary through a war planning window and allow you and the ai to suggest targets and request fleet support by ordering the requested fleet to follow the attacking fleet directly from the war planner.
So only 2 years. By Paradox standards, they could wait another 2 and call it a hotfix.
I honestly think the performance of the AI must be situational, in that it depends on the given conditions as to how well it performs. I'm on my second game since Federations doing a run as the Commonwealth of Man. I had a defense pact with another nation early in the game, and he invites me to join a war against another power that was more powerful than each of us separately. I decided to chance it. I made some claims and joined in.
My partner actually participated in the war. By no means was the AI particularly brilliant, but he actually took systems and reclaimed those that were taken by the enemy once the enemy fleet had gone elsewhere. Very rarely did I find one of his fleets with no orders. The enemy fleet also kept switching its attention between myself and my ally depending on which one was making gains. We were able to settle status quo with each of us picking up a few systems.
Then later on, a similar situation against the same enemy, and my ally's performance was more lackluster and confused. He managed to keep his territory defended, but seemed to let several opportunities to take systems go by.
But then again later in the game, when I was head of a large hegemony federation, I declared a vassalization war, and my nearest aliy swarmed all over him. When the war was over, I took the nation as a vassal ... minus two systems that said ally apparently had a claim on. I wondered if that partially drives AI motivation, i.e. what's in it for them. Doesn't explain the reports of failing to defend territory, of course, but it's interesting nonetheless.
My partner actually participated in the war. By no means was the AI particularly brilliant, but he actually took systems and reclaimed those that were taken by the enemy once the enemy fleet had gone elsewhere. Very rarely did I find one of his fleets with no orders. The enemy fleet also kept switching its attention between myself and my ally depending on which one was making gains. We were able to settle status quo with each of us picking up a few systems.
Then later on, a similar situation against the same enemy, and my ally's performance was more lackluster and confused. He managed to keep his territory defended, but seemed to let several opportunities to take systems go by.
But then again later in the game, when I was head of a large hegemony federation, I declared a vassalization war, and my nearest aliy swarmed all over him. When the war was over, I took the nation as a vassal ... minus two systems that said ally apparently had a claim on. I wondered if that partially drives AI motivation, i.e. what's in it for them. Doesn't explain the reports of failing to defend territory, of course, but it's interesting nonetheless.
For me, In some cases, the AI does well, maneuvering to gain an advantage. Other times, they build dozens of individual corvettes to send to die in enemy's fleets
Yeah and it seems real hit and miss at times too. Case in point this current game of mine, we declared war on a Purifier to the north of my borders. Most of my federation and my two vassals swarmed into his territory and was carving me some good territory while I focused on a few of his planets to the north east. There wasn't anything in it for them either, all the territory was automatically going to me.
Then a decade later I'm working on setting up for Shard (Who's dig site popped up in the Purifier's borders) when the federation to the west of ours declares war on us. What do my federation members do? Loiter around in their respective systems while a handful of 3k fleets march around capturing stuff. The 18k Federation Fleet's idling in a system with a dozen or two single-ship "fleets" and two actual fleets. Several years later I check back and most of the fed leader's territory is occupied, and not a single ship has left the starbases they're parked at.
Somehow, they were pretty active and organized before. But then we get declared war on and they just sit there twiddling their thumbs. :/
Come to think of it, when I've watched the AI's declare war on each other this game the defenders tend to zone out more often than not while the attackers are usually pretty organized...
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Lil update of sorts on the matter: I had to restart my computer for an update, and when I reloaded my save file? Several of my formerly dormant allied fleets sprung into action and started moving to reclaim the starbases it lost while idling. Sure, some of the ships continued to idle, but several of the larger fleets were doing something finally.
Oh, and all of the single-ship "fleets" suddenly merged into other fleets right away. Someone mentioned once that exiting the game while ships are MIA for resupplying another fleet might bug out when they exit out of MIA status later, maybe that happened here?
Oh, and all of the single-ship "fleets" suddenly merged into other fleets right away. Someone mentioned once that exiting the game while ships are MIA for resupplying another fleet might bug out when they exit out of MIA status later, maybe that happened here?
I wondered what was causing that!!! I keep having random one or two ship fleets floating around my empire and was super confused as to where they were all coming from.
I've seen that happen with enemy fleets, and long before Federations came out. I remember one game where I was at war with a member of a Federation and their rather large federation fleet just sat there. I had to call the game quits for the day, and soon as I reloaded it the next day, the enemy fleet suddenly woke up and began taking back systems. It's like some extra calculation takes place upon a game load.