Allied AI are still useless in wars

[MustangNinjas]

So I've run into a situation where I have been dragged into a war against two empires. These two empires are doing great, they're moving units around, assaulting and invading planets, etc. My allies, however, are doing nothing. They both refuse to move their fleets out of their capital systems, and I think I've figured out why. So in the first case, my ally is actively trying to upgrade ships during a war while its planets are getting taken. It has the military might to defend itself, but its fleets apparently think getting upgraded trumps defending the planets that will provide resources for said upgrades. Naturally, that ally got completely occupied except for their home system. For my other ally, it seems whatever code that tells them how to fight has pretty much checked out. There really aren't any easy avenues for it to invade into, so the AI has adopted the remarkable tactic of giving up completely, not defending systems at all, and keeping everything in the capital. Basically the AI equivalent of sticking your head in the sand. Hope this gets fixed soon because right now, federations are still essentially meaningless; they can't satisfy their most basic game-play incentive - collective defense.

Edit: Another problem I've run into that I'll just tack on here - the reinforce fleet button will simply make a new fleet if the fleet it is reinforcing is in combat when the reinforcing ship finishes construction.

Edit 2: Also just a general note to whoever happens across this thread, please don't auto downvote people who say that the AI is working for them. I get the frustration, but better to ask them for more info so we can get to the bottom of whatever is and isn't causing the AI to still spaz out.

 

[Wintermvte]

i agree (playing 2.6.1)
was just dragged into a war, fighting against two other empires with my federation (three members)
the federation fleets do not move (no ordners), sometimes move back and forth, allied fleets suiciding in a superior enemy fleet, allied fleets do not group together with the other empire fleets / or federation fleet (we could have beaten the enemy fleet together), it seems when i load the game the fleets choose a different target, sometimes they want to move to the other end of the galaxy and fight neutral space whales (yes, facepalm)
for some reason my enemies seem to handle this way better than my allies do (?)

Space UN denouncments sound great but even as a Galactic Council Member i cannot use emergency measures against the aggressors when the senate is in session for another 1500+ days
+ my fellow fed members president just deleted our fed fleet before the war started for some reason

this is frustrating, since the galactic community and diplomatic options feel like a good improvments

I think a simple command/vote, target system -> attack this system, attack this fleet, defend there, group here, join fleet with x, would help to coordinate this

 

[Subcomandante]

It looks like an allied AI determines whether it can have an impact before it commits fleets. If it thinks there is no chance to win in pitched battles, even by combining with you, it stays at home around its stations. Dunno.

In my first 2.6 game this happened to me too, when I was attacked by a massively superior purifier, an my ally didn't come to my help at all. The purifier was able to get one of my planets, but exhausted himself in the ground battle, so he ended the war. Due to the loss of the planet, my economy and military was in shambles, and my ally cleverly demanded vassalisation, which I had to accept. Then one of my planets, which was populated mostly by xenophobic refugees from another of the purifier's genocides, revolted and declared independence. Because of my economy I could not take it back, and my overlord soon vassalised and integrated them too. Now the overlord is much more powerful and is waging a decades long see saw containment battle against the purifier who still aims to annihilate me. We're up to 3 wars now.

Because the purifier has more enemies on his far side, he has to split his sizable fleets, and the overlord indeed engages in battle when it thinks it has a chance, doing long distance campaigns. These campaigns were successful. By the skin of our teeth, my armies and his navies continue to hold on. When the purifier combines his fleets he can't be stopped in space, but my armies continue to buy time just so.

I like to think my then ally, now overlord, didn't help me on purpose to let the purifier weaken me and then pluck me as the ripe fruit that I was. I gave the AI a slight advantage this game, on captain difficulty, and slightly more planets so that it has a better chance to build a good economy. And it pretty much does.

 

[MustangNinjas]

It looks like an allied AI determines whether it can have an impact before it commits fleets. If it thinks there is no chance to win in pitched battles, even by combining with you, it stays at home around its stations. Dunno.

In my first 2.6 game this happened to me too, when I was attacked by a massively superior purifier, an my ally didn't come to my help at all. The purifier was able to get one of my planets, but exhausted himself in the ground battle, so he ended the war. Due to the loss of the planet, my economy and military was in shambles, and my ally cleverly demanded vassalisation, which I had to accept. Then one of my planets, which was populated mostly by xenophobic refugees from another of the purifier's genocides, revolted and declared independence. Because of my economy I could not take it back, and my overlord soon vassalised and integrated them too. Now the overlord is much more powerful and is waging a decades long see saw containment battle against the purifier who still aims to annihilate me. We're up to 3 wars now.

Because the purifier has more enemies on his far side, he has to split his sizable fleets, and the overlord indeed engages in battle when it thinks it has a chance, doing long distance campaigns. These campaigns were successful. By the skin of our teeth, my armies and his navies continue to hold on. When the purifier combines his fleets he can't be stopped in space, but my armies continue to buy time just so.

I like to think my then ally, now overlord, didn't help me on purpose to let the purifier weaken me and then pluck me as the ripe fruit that I was.

It's not just that the AI stays home defending their stations either, they don't even do that. I've since looked at other threads and talked to other people and they're having the same issue. Even large allied empires with overwhelmingly large fleets will happily let their entire empire get sieged down and never assign orders to their fleets in the capital. Solo games honestly feel unplayable right now. What really peeves me is that the absolute minimum amount of play-testing would have caught this. It's such an obvious issue that I can't see how no one at Paradox noticed this before release. I really appreciate the work they put into this game, but it's just so frustrating that there always seems to be a vital system broken or under-performing that kills enjoyment.

 

[Calvax]

In my experience it's not useless. In the last three wars my Federation has waged I didn't want to get involved in any of them. In all three cases my federation allies won without me, taking territory and defending their own pretty well. It seems like the issues some people are facing is that the AI is more cautious than it once was (which is good because running small fleets one by one was terrible) which makes it seem brain dead.

 

[Subcomandante]

It's not just that the AI stays home defending their stations either, they don't even do that. I've since looked at other threads and talked to other people and they're having the same issue. Even large allied empires with overwhelmingly large fleets will happily let their entire empire get sieged down and never assign orders to their fleets in the capital. Solo games honestly feel unplayable right now.

This exact thing didn't happen to me so far, in my game multiple AI empires actually defend, and in case they attack they generally do so with enough power. Don't the AIs have personalities? Maybe pacifists are a little too passive.

After he vassalised me, my overlord is actually quite aggressive (he is a militarist after all), and he even outmaneuvers larger enemy fleet concentrations to slip into enemy territory and engages stationary defenses. Maybe to make the enemy doomstack stop bombarding my troops?

 

[MustangNinjas]

This exact thing didn't happen to me so far, in my game multiple AI empires actually defend, and in case they attack they generally do so with enough power. Don't the AIs have personalities? Maybe pacifists are a little too passive.

The allies in my game weren't pacifist, and one of them had more than enough fleet strength to defend itself. My friend showed me one of his games as well where his two militarist allies with massive fleets just wouldn't assign orders. Glad things are working for you, though.

Maybe it's something specifically about player allies in defensive pacts/federations? Not sure how that would affect things, though.

 

[Subcomandante]

The allies in my game weren't pacifist, and one of them had more than enough fleet strength to defend itself. My friend showed me one of his games as well where his two militarist allies with massive fleets just wouldn't assign orders. Glad things are working for you, though.

Next game they might not work for me either. There probably still is a bug somewhere, or something we don't know. But it's a good thing that your friend has two allies with massive fleets at all, which was not exactly a given in 2.5.

 

[MustangNinjas]

Next game they might not work for me either. There probably still is a bug somewhere, or something we don't know. But it's a good thing that your friend has two allies with massive fleets at all, which was not exactly a given in 2.5.

Hah, reminds me of a tree falling in the woods. "If they don't use the fleet, do they have a fleet at all?"

 

[Alkaid98]

As I worried, it sounds like the AI is still too incompetent to want to federate with them despite the dlc's added features. Getting sucked into wars by them, the still-useless ally fleets and the poor choices they make when they have presidency sound like I still don't want to ever join a federation with them even with the DLC. And that means not utilizing the main point of the $20 DLC. Disappointed it still feels like a feature way better suited MP, and I don't play MP myself.

 

[Damedius]

In my game I started a federation.

My federation ally declared war on a Fanatical Purifier Empire and proceeded to do absolutely nothing. The bulk of his fleet hid in my Empire's space.

 

[MustangNinjas]

As I worried, it sounds like the AI is still too incompetent to want to federate with them despite the dlc's added features. Getting sucked into wars by them, the still-useless ally fleets and the poor choices they make when they have presidency sound like I still don't want to ever join a federation with them even with the DLC. And that means not utilizing the main point of the $20 DLC. Disappointed it still feels like a feature way better suited MP, and I don't play MP myself.

The multiplayer game I'm in right now is going great, loads of fun when stuff works correctly. Federations are great with friends. But I agree that they're still a bit of a ball and chain right now with AI, especially if you're pacifist.

 

[Alkaid98]

The multiplayer game I'm in right now is going great, loads of fun when stuff works correctly. Federations are great with friends. But I agree that they're still a bit of a ball and chain right now with AI, especially if you're pacifist.

Yeah, it definitely does look cool for multiplayer with friends. I like the idea of properly managing a federation and interacting with the council stuff with other people. Too bad for solo play it still doesn't seem to fix the problems that made it more detrimental than anything to use federations before.

 

[Wintermvte]

i believe nobody is really playtesting it against the AI? Only mulitplayer? Otherwise i cannot explain this constant AI issues. The economic AI however, is somewhat competent now (only thing is the consumer goods production seems to get a bit out of hand for some reason, as there are never enough of this ressource)

 

[MustangNinjas]

i believe nobody is really playtesting it against the AI? Only mulitplayer? Otherwise i cannot explain this constant AI issues. The economic AI however, is somewhat competent now (only thing is the consumer goods production seems to get a bit out of hand for some reason, as there are never enough of this ressource)

I appreciate how hard it is to code working AI for a game like this. Even with my very limited coding knowledge, I can only imagine how many ways little for-loops and if-statements can interact badly across hundreds of different scenarios. Still, it very much sucks that the AI is still wonky. Condolences to the devs.

 

[nfmarque]

Does anyone know how to make ai fleets follow me? Take point doesn't seem to be working

 

[Wintermvte]

nope, they just ignore it as far as i could test

 

[NoahKGreen]

We really need a way to get AI fleets to support us in wars. I love the new Federation Systems, but I need my Federation Allies to actually commit their fleets. If I can't get direct control I at least need to either get them to follow my fleets or set up star systems as targets. It's just so frustrating to have their fleets sit at home when I know they can help turn the tide in close fights.

 

[Rezca]

We really need a way to get AI fleets to support us in wars. I love the new Federation Systems, but I need my Federation Allies to actually commit their fleets. If I can't get direct control I at least need to either get them to follow my fleets or set up star systems as targets. It's just so frustrating to have their fleets sit at home when I know they can help turn the tide in close fights.

This is just a thought, but maybe something like Civilization IV when you were in an alliance with an AI you could tell them to attack a specific city. A similar mechanic in Stellaris you could possibly have them target a specific planet or system, or maybe even have additional goals like "Focus on defending the border" or "Defend this System", "Take this system" and "Hunt down enemy fleets" or so on.

Maybe something along those lines? If an AI is friendly with you and in your Federation you could give them "suggestions" on what to do if you don't trust them to their own devices.

 

[TofuFox]

The allies in my game weren't pacifist, and one of them had more than enough fleet strength to defend itself. My friend showed me one of his games as well where his two militarist allies with massive fleets just wouldn't assign orders. Glad things are working for you, though.

Maybe it's something specifically about player allies in defensive pacts/federations? Not sure how that would affect things, though.

I've found it consistently happening to Federation Presidents; filed a bug report and they said it was a known issue, hopefully it will be addressed in 2.6.3. Likely related to upgrading issues, as there are a bunch of issues with upgrading Federation Fleets that haven't been fixed. That wouldn't explain it happening to both your allies, though.

It looks like an allied AI determines whether it can have an impact before it commits fleets. If it thinks there is no chance to win in pitched battles, even by combining with you, it stays at home around its stations. Dunno.

I don't think this is it - it happened to me even when the ally had the strongest fleet in the war, more than enough to take the enemy on their own.

This is just a thought, but maybe something like Civilization IV when you were in an alliance with an AI you could tell them to attack a specific city. A similar mechanic in Stellaris you could possibly have them target a specific planet or system, or maybe even have additional goals like "Focus on defending the border" or "Defend this System", "Take this system" and "Hunt down enemy fleets" or so on.

Maybe something along those lines? If an AI is friendly with you and in your Federation you could give them "suggestions" on what to do if you don't trust them to their own devices.

There is a "take point" setting for fleets that tells AI to follow the fleet, but it hasn't worked for some time.