Alliance With a Rival

[Chlodio]

Isn't that bit absurd? I don't understand why you can't ally your rival, being rival already gives opinion malus thus it is difficult to make them agree.

I didn't find any basis for this, but I did find examples where rivals were had alliance. Before War of Devolution France considered Netherlands as a trading rival, but had military alliance with them, France and England were allied when they attacked Netherlands in Franco-Dutch War.

Just by removing "Cannot ally with a rival." would be make rival system much more flexible.

 

[TheProCoder]

Are you friends with that kid who always calls you names and wants your things? No.

 

[Chlodio]

Are you friends with that kid who always calls you names and wants your things? No.

Nations aren't people... Did you even read anything beyond the title? Your definition of rival only applies to elementary school bully, why would even think that is what rival means? To be rival you have to be competing with a person who has same goals and If you have never had to work with people like that... But even if you are friends with them you would't be able to, because "Cannot ally with a rival".

 

[Wizzington]

Rivals are your publicly declared enemies. No, you can't ally with them.

 

[net.split]

You can be a "rival" without being a Rival.

Careful at confusing game terms with natural language.

 

[TheProCoder]

Yes my definition of a rival was a little crude and I apologise but that doesn't change the fact that rivals are people that you openly declare your competition (and often hatred) towards. If I were to tell all my friends that I hate you and am now competing against you in something I can't then show up tomorrow and declare that we will be working together. It would be strange. But you could interpret the game's idea of a rival in many ways.

 

[Chlodio]

Yes my definition of a rival was a little crude and I apologise but that doesn't change the fact that rivals are people that you openly declare your competition (and often hatred) towards. If I were to tell all my friends that I hate you and am now competing against you in something I can't then show up tomorrow and declare that we will be working together. It would be strange. But you could interpret the game's idea of a rival in many ways.

Before War of Devolution France considered Netherlands as a trading rival, but had military alliance with them, France and England were allied when they attacked Netherlands in Franco-Dutch War.

 

[net.split]

Yes my definition of a rival was a little crude and I apologise but that doesn't change the fact that rivals are people that you openly declare your competition (and often hatred) towards. If I were to tell all my friends that I hate you and am now competing against you in something I can't then show up tomorrow and declare that we will be working together. It would be strange. But you could interpret the game's idea of a rival in many ways.

My comment was directed more toward Chlodio Essentially, that you can be a "trading rival" with another nation (natural language describing a particular element of a relationship) without being a Rival (precise EU4 mechanic with a collection of implications and consequences).

EDIT: whoops, it was likely you were responding to Chlodio. Ah well, keeping this clarification there anyway.

 

[Sagif]

Don't forget! We are applying Human behavior in a game, with AI.
In real life, longtime rivals could set aside some differences to defeat a common and bigger rival. But in game, it would be impossible to do it.

But there is a way!
If you want them to help you in future wars, just force vassalize them... That way you get a vassal, more troops and Power Projection

 

[Chlodio]

Rivals are your publicly declared enemies. No, you can't ally with them.

I appropriate that you took time to reply and I respect your decision, but I would still like to say few thinks about it.

Arumba pointed that Bosnia and Serbia are forced to rival each other instead of making alliance and defending against Ottomans.

You could fix this issue by making them historical friends, but this is a situation that happens in every game. Let's say your alliance has lasted over 300 years, they don't have any ae towards you and your relations are hight, but when they're forced to pick a new rival... They pick you because your force limits have grown, the long alliance and wars fought together all for nothing, only because you're almost as strong.

Allying France letting them fight your wars for them is cheap, but what are you supposed to do? You can't ally your neighbours that are as powerful as you because they have rivalled you.

I'm not saying allying rivals should be casual and easy, it should be rare and hard. Just give big penalty for it.

It just bothers me that it is hardcoded block, why isn't it another -1000 penalty? At least At least I could suggest it and be rejected.