All right...what happened?

[unmerged(48134)]

Only had CK and DV for 24 hours, from GG. The UI isn't that hard to figure out, looked at the manual. So I'm totally vanilla here, with the latest 1.2 beta displayed in upperRH corner at launch.

1066, chose to be Duke of Northumberland. I know my history, saw I was a Saxon lord with a Norman liege.

Anyhow, just trying to improve my lands, get married, be a team player. First, Billy Boy did a number and a half on my brother in Lancaster. I got the message and became very loyal. Secondly, my Piety seemed the best of my Basic 3 measures, by far. I was spending money on domestic improvements regularly.

I took a hit on Prestige when I Grabbed a claim to the County of Lancaster - that's cuz Bill the B----rd put some no-name landless twerp on my brother's ex-county/duchy seat. Other than that, been a reeaallly good Saxon vassal.

* I noticed that I seemed to be getting 2-3 $$ a month although my income report was slightly negative. What's the deal here?

* Outta nowhere, King William I excommunicates me! (He's the PC) Hey, whaddup wid dat???

* Then, he wants me to mobilize all my ducal troops. I see he's at war in Nicea (First Crusade historical context). OK, even though I can't take communion, I'll join your Crusade. What the...??? I knock my troop maintenance down to zero (0), 'cuz I'm already at minus 300 $$ and sinking fast (oh, you want the troops, just not the bill, Bill).

* Then I hafta auction off a Forest, which seems to do zippo arithmetically - no effects on debt that I see.

* Then I see a new piece of drapery in the living room that I click on and am informed to get my excommunicated Crusading butt in gear. Hey, I wanna go killed in a holy battle, Martial's my best virtue, which has been unused, but all my troops that the King wanted are just standing there scratching their escutcheons, I can't give orders to 'em, apparently, I got nobody and nuttin' to go Crusading with, the shylocks are gonna show up anyday and take the kids and furniture...what went wrong here? Why won't the King use the troops he wanted? Why did he exComm me? (Admittedly, could just be code) I was a pious, loyal baron, now I'm an indigent wannabe noble - it's just not right, I'm tellin' ya.

* Oh, I take it your 'capital' is the province that your arms are displayed in.

Any Help kindly appreciated.

*** "But I don't want to be a Baron!" ***

 

[Nick B II]

Any AI Papal Controller will excom the player if it can. It sucks. But there's not much you can do about it unless you've got land to spare. Then creating a Bishopric for 150 piety is a good move.

When a Crusade is called that curtain thingy appears. It goes away when the Crusade ends.

The mobilized troops doing jack thing is a bug in the AI. A re-load typically helps.

And yes, lieges do suck.

Nick

 

[unmerged(48134)]

Thanks for the quick reply. A few followup Q's:

* "...if it can.." It always can, can't it? Or do you mean just if your liege is the PC?

* So, if I reload, are the King's troops that he wanted gonna move their butts off to war? I'll make more if I hafta, but geez, do something with the guys you wanted.

* Am I supposed to pay for the upkeep of the troops that my liege wants?

* If I bestow the Bishopric, will Bill revoke the exComm?

* How do I crawl outta -300 $$ debt to do any of these things?

* And how about the forced auction of my asset - I didn't see any effect on $$ numbers.

Do I just chalk this up to experience and start a new game? Oh, BTW, my Intrigue had fallen to first, only being able to Directly Control 3 provinces, then, recently to 2. Whaddup wid dat? I was being stubborn and not creating any Titles, mostly 'cuz I had two young daughters. I do have a nephew who looks like he's the first Successor - he's a neighboring Count.

 

[Nick B II]

* "...if it can.." It always can, can't it? Or do you mean just if your liege is the PC?

Excommunicating people costs the Pope piety. If your piety is high enough he can't excommunicate you. So if you have extra land you can prevent excommunication by creating a Bishopric for 150-300 free piety. Otherwise you're at the mercy of events. Bill won't ever revoke the Excomm. Eventually you'll get an event allowing you to bribe your way back into the Pope's good graces. This won't be 100%, and it will cost you way more than you can afford.

If I was you I'd make sure the vassals were loyal, appoint some loyal advisers, and wait for the current Duke to die. His heir isn't excommed yet. If you get lucky Bill will pre-decease the Duke, and the next PC will be Croatian. He won't excomm your new Duke at the first opportunity the way Bill would.

In theory you should pay for the troops upkeep. But nobody does. Literally. AI realms can't go into debt, so you are literally the only one in all of England who is 300 in debt due to the Crusade. The AI's too dim too handle large amounts of debt, so if Paradox wanted a game where non-humans could afford castles they had to make it impossible for the AI to go into debt.

Wait to get out of debt. If you're making 2 a month that's 24 a year. In 15 years you're debt-free. That's a lot of time to not be doing much, but as a weak Duke you spend most of your time waiting for opportunities.

If you want to play a little more actual CK restart. Apulia and Denmark are both great choices as starter countries. They've got no lieges, no annoying papal controller to deal with, and easy heathens to conquer. Boehia is another good choice -- it's rich, and can be liege-free as soon as you have enough to pay for a Royal Coronation.

Nick

 

[unmerged(48134)]

Thanks again.

Damn, I wasn't trying to be particulatly pious, but I had like 294 Piety!

Is it worth it to run at less than 100% Efficiency, or should one bestow Titles as soon as you're seeing the icon for Releasing a province? Again, I was recalcitrant mostly 'cuz of the daughters (SemiSalic Primo).

Decades to get outta debt, huh? What's a good monthly income? 3 $$? 5? Doesn't seem like even a 4 province Duke is rakin' it in.

Thanks again.

CC

 

[TempestDK]

Thanks again.

Damn, I wasn't trying to be particulatly pious, but I had like 294 Piety!

Is it worth it to run at less than 100% Efficiency, or should one bestow Titles as soon as you're seeing the icon for Releasing a province? Again, I was recalcitrant mostly 'cuz of the daughters (SemiSalic Primo).

Decades to get outta debt, huh? What's a good monthly income? 3 $$? 5? Doesn't seem like even a 4 province Duke is rakin' it in.

Thanks again.

CC

Actually it is the Pope's prestige that decides if you can be excommunicated. If he has more prestige than you have piety, he can. And the AI will often do that if you live next-door.

Also as a english vassal, expect the king to claim your title if he ever has a demesne province next to yours. And then he'll come calling like he did your brother.

At the start of the game 5-10 gold per month is ok, as most provinces don't have improvements. Later on you'll have more money that you'll know what to do with.

But being a poor count or duke can be a challenge and maybe not the best choice for a first or second. Once you have the hang of the game, you can try those for extra difficulty. Try being the count of Faeroe islands who makes squat each month.

Only run at less than 100% if the provinces are good income. F.x. there is no need to hang on to a province that has base tax value 0,61 with smugglers and thieves. Give it away to someone else and let them deal with it. Ofcourse if you are a count, you will want to keep all the provinces for yourself, until you can get a Duke title, so you can have vassals.

What I always do immediately is change inheritance laws to Salic. The one where the strongest son inherits .... that way I am not stuck with the first born, should he suck immensely.

 

[unmerged(48134)]

Thanks again. I'm just running with what I have, but it looks like it's gonna be Game Over soon. Actually, it wasn't that bad until my eldest daughter married. I'm SemiSal Primo, so her son takes precedence over my nephew, a neighboring Count.

I got my troops back, eventually (I did reload the save I made before coming here). I bestowed a Bishopric on my DioBish and the ungrateful &*%$# DoWed me the next minute! The Royal Headknockers snuffed him, but the King took Westmoreland and gave it to the twerp's (q. v.) father.

Actually have recovered $$ faster than I thought. Still over -150.

My eldest daughter was made SpyMaster at her court (a Norwegian Republic, BTW). My SM's Intrigue and mine total less than her court's sum - is that why I'm not getting a button to let me try to assasinate my grandson?

I know, I'm a louse; but I'm a live louse (so far, maybe not for long).

Oh, BTW, went Crusading and landed in Alexandria with seven (7!) men. All got killed thru attrition - except me, apparently. Scotty beamed me back to the castle, I guess.

If I can't off my grandson, it's curtains for the dynasty, unless the game switches me over to my nephew as Count of Derby. Does that sound right? I can't change Laws for another 18 months or so, and my present self is in his 60s.

 

[unmerged(14792)]

If the Papal Controller is someone who borders you, he'll always excommunicate you. I had a count vassal who bordered my demesne who became the PC. He instantly excommunicated my character, the King. Piety may or may not help, I'm not sure. The AI PC can cause the Pope to go into negative prestige to excommunicate you, so having more Piety than the Pope's prestige may not help.

 

[DarthJF]

You can't assasinate your grandson because you don't have enough money for that. Intrique affects only the chances of assasination.

 

[TempestDK]

Thanks again. I'm just running with what I have, but it looks like it's gonna be Game Over soon. Actually, it wasn't that bad until my eldest daughter married. I'm SemiSal Primo, so her son takes precedence over my nephew, a neighboring Count.

I got my troops back, eventually (I did reload the save I made before coming here). I bestowed a Bishopric on my DioBish and the ungrateful &*%$# DoWed me the next minute! The Royal Headknockers snuffed him, but the King took Westmoreland and gave it to the twerp's (q. v.) father.

Actually have recovered $$ faster than I thought. Still over -150.

My eldest daughter was made SpyMaster at her court (a Norwegian Republic, BTW). My SM's Intrigue and mine total less than her court's sum - is that why I'm not getting a button to let me try to assasinate my grandson?

I know, I'm a louse; but I'm a live louse (so far, maybe not for long).

Oh, BTW, went Crusading and landed in Alexandria with seven (7!) men. All got killed thru attrition - except me, apparently. Scotty beamed me back to the castle, I guess.

If I can't off my grandson, it's curtains for the dynasty, unless the game switches me over to my nephew as Count of Derby. Does that sound right? I can't change Laws for another 18 months or so, and my present self is in his 60s.

Just change your inheritance law to Salic, and your dynasty will live forever ... if you die without an heir, then a "country cousin" (generated courtier of your dynasty with lousy stats) will take over.

 

[Nick B II]

Is it worth it to run at less than 100% Efficiency, or should one bestow Titles as soon as you're seeing the icon for Releasing a province? Again, I was recalcitrant mostly 'cuz of the daughters (SemiSalic Primo).

The first thing I do in every game is change inheritance law to salic. There's just no reason to stay with semi-salic.

My target efficiency is actually 80%. You still get all your income if you have Royal posts built everywhere, and the really bad over-desmene limit events don't kick in until you're at below 80.

Nick

 

[unmerged(14792)]

Running over the demesne limit will cause the ruler to become stressed, and possibly depressed which lowers his stats and fertility (depressed is infertile).

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Running over the demesne limit will cause the ruler to become stressed, and possibly depressed which lowers his stats and fertility (depressed is infertile).

Truly? I usually run over 70-80% because I own too much provinces for my Intrigue level (DV), but I've never got the depressed or stressed trait on the ruler for it (actually, I don't remember having a depressed king...).

 

[Edzako]

Truly? I usually run over 70-80% because I own too much provinces for my Intrigue level (DV), but I've never got the depressed or stressed trait on the ruler for it (actually, I don't remember having a depressed king...).

Then you aren't playing that right


Oh wait you are.


I once got some 3 or 4 "depressing" events in decade because I run my empire on 40% eff., my ruler had really low intrigue, but he also was stressed, ill with worms and did command troops in battlefield at the age of 65 o

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Truly? I usually run over 70-80% because I own too much provinces for my Intrigue level (DV), but I've never got the depressed or stressed trait on the ruler for it (actually, I don't remember having a depressed king...).

At 80% you are still save from the worst effects of having a low efficiency

 

[saskganesh]

The first thing I do in every game is change inheritance law to salic. There's just no reason to stay with semi-salic.

actually there is. since its the AI default, more or less, being semi-salic makes inheritances that flow in and out of your court much easier to track and anticipate.

 

[vertinox]

Just change your inheritance law to Salic, and your dynasty will live forever ... if you die without an heir, then a "country cousin" (generated courtier of your dynasty with lousy stats) will take over.

Real men play with semi-salic Gavelkind as their inheritance law.

Actually, after playing CK for a few years, I don't bother changing because I find myself having it too easy over the ai.

(I play on very hard with AI on lowest aggressive settings so that the ai doesn't destroy itself with civil wars)

 

[unmerged(133776)]

Oh, BTW, went Crusading and landed in Alexandria with seven (7!) men. All got killed thru attrition - except me, apparently. Scotty beamed me back to the castle, I guess.

That sounds like you sent your personal (and vassal's) troops off with your Troop Upkeep slider still at 0. Once your troops are outside of your lands (or over the support limit in a County), the attrition rate goes sky-high with no upkeep. Even when you do the "Liege wants my troops, i raise them myself, put slider at 0, then press okay". As long as they stand there in your own realm, no big deal. But once outside of it, they are toast due to attrition.

 

[unmerged(48134)]

Well, since this seems to be a thread of interest, I'll keep it up; not to be an AAR, though.

Yes, I definitely noticed the astronomical attrition rate. Thx for the remarks.

My First Guy lived long enuff so that I could switch to SalicPrimo. The nephew succeeded. Played a few more years and saved.

Started a new game as William the B----rd. I knew I'd be dealing with rebellion. Observation: the AI just keeps coming and coming, even with 13 soldiers. Q: Does having to interrupt a siege to fight off pesky attackers inteerupt the siege's progress? My guess is Yes - it doesn't restart it, but you have to pick up where you left off.

* Ya gotta beat 'em down so that they quit recruiting, right?

My rebellion was reeaally drawn out. As Sun Tzu says, not really the central idea. I shoulda GenMobilized to start with. I went through at least two cycles of 'Holy Handgrenade, Batman! Troops just melted away!' I was keeping up decent Maintenance (I think), but attrition is brutal in this game. I was being real stubborn - eventually took 3 of Mordrac's Counties away, left him with one and completely stripped the other two of their Counties. Also dealt with other noble rebellions on the side and IMHO, ya can't be brutal to everybody - at some point ya gotta tolerate the unwanted behavior, 'cuz you don''t have enuff Courtiers to replace everybody in sight, nor the time.

Also, a really good question - the nobles who I left in their holdings after a rebellion are no longer my vassals; they have no lieges. Did I miss something in the peace talks? Can I do anything to prevent this in the future?

Thanks,
CC

 

[unmerged(133776)]

Started a new game as William the B----rd. I knew I'd be dealing with rebellion. Observation: the AI just keeps coming and coming, even with 13 soldiers. Q: Does having to interrupt a siege to fight off pesky attackers inteerupt the siege's progress? My guess is Yes - it doesn't restart it, but you have to pick up where you left off.
CC

Yes, sieges stop progressing during battles.

I was being real stubborn - eventually took 3 of Mordrac's Counties away, left him with one and completely stripped the other two of their Counties. Also dealt with other noble rebellions on the side and IMHO, ya can't be brutal to everybody - at some point ya gotta tolerate the unwanted behavior, 'cuz you don''t have enuff Courtiers to replace everybody in sight, nor the time.

Also, a really good question - the nobles who I left in their holdings after a rebellion are no longer my vassals; they have no lieges. Did I miss something in the peace talks? Can I do anything to prevent this in the future?

As long as you have a claim on their title(s), the top option in the Peace talks should be "Be My Vassal". Then you should always give up the claims on their titles (except for the odd very rich county you have your eye on), and force them to give up claims on you (force them to recognize you as rightful owner).

Just to be sure, you do have the latest Beta Patch? I know it says 2.1 Beta Patch, but it never hurts to double-check. Some games come with a prior Beta Patch installed. See the stickies for the patch threads.

Edit: Oh, and we're weird, we love hearing interesting tales of other player's games. And it's been fun sitting on this side of the computer screen, listening to your way of talking and flavoring the game.