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Technically in the scenario we discuss the US would be in the position of the Soviets and Germany in position of the US and the US didn't back down even under the threat of Soviet nuclear retaliation. The US couldn't back down because with the technique of the '50s nuclear weapons so near to your heartland you wouldn’t have any time to retaliate if the enemy would want to strike first and Germany would be in this scenario be in the same position. Backing down wouldn't be an option.
My main focus will be getting the lingering Threat from the East which is in Fatherland to work. I think it would be unlikely for the Americans to get a foothold anywhere in Western Europe barring some major catastrophe or a MacArthur presidency in the US.
Here's the plan:
Main story line--Stevenson presidency leading to US-Soviet alliance giving the story line of the novel
Alternate story line--MacArthur wins in 52, junks the Soviet Union idea and crafts an alliance involving the Spanish speaking countries (and maybe Spain, since Franco privately detested Hitler for religious and cultural reasons) leading to real fireworks. This might be especially credible with a strong united China (maybe restored Qing Dynasty)
Here's the plan:
Main story line--Stevenson presidency leading to US-Soviet alliance giving the story line of the novel
Alternate story line--MacArthur wins in 52, junks the Soviet Union idea and crafts an alliance involving the Spanish speaking countries (and maybe Spain, since Franco privately detested Hitler for religious and cultural reasons) leading to real fireworks. This might be especially credible with a strong united China (maybe restored Qing Dynasty)
I thought about it. The differance is that the Soviets compromised on having missles in Cuba, this is like the U.S. allowing enemies to have weapons, not just in Cuba but in Nova Scotia.
Instead of Sweden/Finland how about Ireland.. its not part of the EU as im aware of and with American rockets it can easily reach most of the Major European capitals and it would be easier to sneak in nuclear weapons rather than having to sail around Britian and the north sea to Sweden/Finland.
Going a tad off topic here, may i suggest giving Italy about 15 or so extra IC as from my little game for the size of its empire its IC is far too small to build a efficent army to give a human player any real challenge.
And also... in which tech group do you research Aircav.. im being abit of a noob and can't find it :rofl:
Going a tad off topic here, may i suggest giving Italy about 15 or so extra IC as from my little game for the size of its empire its IC is far too small to build a efficent army to give a human player any real challenge.
And also... in which tech group do you research Aircav.. im being abit of a noob and can't find it :rofl:
The point is they may want to undermine the credibility and influence of the Germans, hopefully humiliate them, while gaining influence themselves.
That would be a great idea. It would recreate the cuba (Irish) missile crisis.
My point is that it would not undermine the Germans but would undermine the Americans. There is not a snowballs chance in Hell that the Germans would let hostile powers have nukes in Scandinavia while they can do anything about it. It would give the Germans a perfect excuse to go to war and there is little that the Americans can do to help Scandinavia. On the off chance that they actually managed to smuggle any nukes into Scandinavia, the entire region would go up in flames within days. So the U.S. would either fight or have to back down almost immediatley. The likelyhood of Sweden or any other country in the region allowing this to happen is also pretty low. There is a chance that the U.S. would do this but only if they actually wanted a war. The Irish Missle crisis idea is good however.
I like the Irish Missle Crisis good idea. With Italy I think that it should not have much industry as Italy had a rather limited amount of industry historically. As I recall Air Cavaly (in Vanilla) was the ultimate evolution of the standard cavalry division type. I believe that it replaces the cavalry-man with a helicopter on the side thing when you get that type of division.
Under the new tech tree ive just unable to find the original 'aircav' tech which you research in able to built it. prob just me being gumpy
Air Cavalry is under the infantry techs, to the right of Mechanized Infantry.
The best places for a Missile Crisis are:
1) Ireland
2) Cuba with a new twist--Germany aiding Batista in his efforts to fight the American-sponsored Castro.
3) Saudi Arabia
4) The Soviet Union
5) Spain or Portugal (if Soviet Union disappears or is not courted by the Americans, Franco and Salazar might not be so pro-German)
Right now the priority is an OOB. Working on the OOB for the rest of the world.
The best places for a Missile Crisis are:
1) Ireland
2) Cuba with a new twist--Germany aiding Batista in his efforts to fight the American-sponsored Castro.
3) Saudi Arabia
4) The Soviet Union
5) Spain or Portugal (if Soviet Union disappears or is not courted by the Americans, Franco and Salazar might not be so pro-German)
Right now the priority is an OOB. Working on the OOB for the rest of the world.
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That sounds fun! Perhaps you should also allow a strong leftist party to emerge in USA, with it's own presidential candidates at every election unless the player decides to ban/curb it? This would mean it would make more sense, as an anti-leftist USA wouldn't be extremely likely to support a communist insurrection on Cuba, while a tolerant USA might actually do it. It makes perfect sense that USA would suddenly represent world socialism (Social Democracy style) in Fatherland to counter extreme rightism, which would have the same status as Socialism in RL Cold War USA. But of course the option for a triangle Cold War should still be offered.
I plan to have two major actors in the 1952-60 period who will determine US policy: Stevenson and MacArthur.
MacArthur will be the Republican nominee instead of Eisenhower. He's a war hero in this alternate timeline whereas Eisenhower is a nobody. With MacArthur as president there would be no US-Soviet alliance, and no support of Castro. Stevenson, on the other hand, would resurrect the FDR policy of seeking strategic cooperation with the Soviets, and would support people like Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro. The book is very specific about continued resistance by the Soviet Union with US support. The attempt to undermine US support of the Communist-inspired rebels is the whole reason for the meeting between Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. and Adolf Hitler in the book.
MacArthur will be the Republican nominee instead of Eisenhower. He's a war hero in this alternate timeline whereas Eisenhower is a nobody. With MacArthur as president there would be no US-Soviet alliance, and no support of Castro. Stevenson, on the other hand, would resurrect the FDR policy of seeking strategic cooperation with the Soviets, and would support people like Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro. The book is very specific about continued resistance by the Soviet Union with US support. The attempt to undermine US support of the Communist-inspired rebels is the whole reason for the meeting between Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. and Adolf Hitler in the book.
Any help needed?
Well, if Portugal lost Britain as an ally, and Germany won the war, I think he would turn pro-German.
I could see an even were Portugal joins the EU and the US goes and size(sp) the Azores (the US Air base), then Germany could have a reason to go to war.
Because, well, Imagine an U-Boat Base right in the middle of the Atlantic...
About Spain, I think it should be a crippled country, with low manpower and low IC. I could see an event were Germany allies with Spain, but needs to give some help rebuilding it. Spain could have some communist (backed by the US) revolts.
In South America, I could see some communist (backed by the US) revolts in some pro-german countries. I think that if the SU was beat, the "magical factor" in Communist would be even bigger.
also, what about the Madagascar-Jew plan?
I think it would be fun to play a rich IC Madagascar, with Claims in the Middle east...
EDIT: Why there isn't a Commie China? shouldn't they exist in the mountains?
And why there is a Free France? I mean, if Germany has the power to reclaim her colonies why can't they conquer Free France back to Vichy?
Also Why does Spain have morroco, if she did not participate in the War? shouldn't it be Vichy, or maybe German?
About the Azores, A reason for the Irish Missle Crisis, could be the U-Boat Base in Azores, that America is trying to balance by puting missles in Ireland.
I think it would be fun to play a rich IC Madagascar, with Claims in the Middle east...
EDIT: Why there isn't a Commie China? shouldn't they exist in the mountains?
And why there is a Free France? I mean, if Germany has the power to reclaim her colonies why can't they conquer Free France back to Vichy?
Also Why does Spain have morroco, if she did not participate in the War? shouldn't it be Vichy, or maybe German?
About the Azores, A reason for the Irish Missle Crisis, could be the U-Boat Base in Azores, that America is trying to balance by puting missles in Ireland.
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I Killed Kenny
The mod is based on how I inherited it, except as modified by me. I concur with the original for the following reasons:
IMO the situation with Spain was rather complex, with Franco playing a game to milk all sides. Spain did participate in the war on the Axis side but only on the Eastern Front (read about the Division Azul). I'd say the US agreed that Spain should have Gibraltar since the UK bowed out and went pro-Axis. As a counter, the Axis offered Morocco to keep Spain from slipping into the Allied orbit. IMO Spain is neutral but Axis-tilting, while Portugal is strictly neutral, wanting freedom of the seas to support its colonial empire.
The Chinese Communists were destroyed although Mao escaped, rescued from death by the US in deference to his support in retrieving downed US pilots during WW2. When the USSR signed the Bitter Peace they cut their ties to Mao and Pu-Yi united with Chiang to wipe out the Communists. However, Communist China could always come back under US or Soviet sponsorship. IRL the Chinese Commies were nearly wiped out in 1946 except for the Soviet support and an untimely cease-fire imposed by George Marshall. This would not have occurred in this timeline.
There was quite a difference between the Vatican's relationship with fascist states and their relationship with Germany, and this religious divide was in my opinion the most exploitable issue on the continent for the US, rivaling the importance in real-life of the Sino-Soviet split. I'd say if Spain clearly went one way or the other then Portugal would follow suit.
Free France continues to exist in the colonies. I intend to keep it but I think that by about 1955 -1960 or so it would have lost any real meaning, and would entertain an event whereby it dissolves into independent nations, and Vichy gets most of the tech teams.
Thank you for your comments.
The mod is based on how I inherited it, except as modified by me. I concur with the original for the following reasons:
IMO the situation with Spain was rather complex, with Franco playing a game to milk all sides. Spain did participate in the war on the Axis side but only on the Eastern Front (read about the Division Azul). I'd say the US agreed that Spain should have Gibraltar since the UK bowed out and went pro-Axis. As a counter, the Axis offered Morocco to keep Spain from slipping into the Allied orbit. IMO Spain is neutral but Axis-tilting, while Portugal is strictly neutral, wanting freedom of the seas to support its colonial empire.
The Chinese Communists were destroyed although Mao escaped, rescued from death by the US in deference to his support in retrieving downed US pilots during WW2. When the USSR signed the Bitter Peace they cut their ties to Mao and Pu-Yi united with Chiang to wipe out the Communists. However, Communist China could always come back under US or Soviet sponsorship. IRL the Chinese Commies were nearly wiped out in 1946 except for the Soviet support and an untimely cease-fire imposed by George Marshall. This would not have occurred in this timeline.
There was quite a difference between the Vatican's relationship with fascist states and their relationship with Germany, and this religious divide was in my opinion the most exploitable issue on the continent for the US, rivaling the importance in real-life of the Sino-Soviet split. I'd say if Spain clearly went one way or the other then Portugal would follow suit.
Free France continues to exist in the colonies. I intend to keep it but I think that by about 1955 -1960 or so it would have lost any real meaning, and would entertain an event whereby it dissolves into independent nations, and Vichy gets most of the tech teams.
Thank you for your comments.
Sorry for the double post but I'd like to bring up some new issues:
IMO Lebanon and Syria should be Vichy puppets.
IMO Bosnia should exist. If Bosnia exists, what should be the borders?
IMO Italy should start out allied with Germany as should Dietsland.
Comments?
Plans--0.21 should have completed OOB for all countries except for Soviet Union, Russia and the two Chinas. Am about 80% finished now.
IMO Lebanon and Syria should be Vichy puppets.
IMO Bosnia should exist. If Bosnia exists, what should be the borders?
IMO Italy should start out allied with Germany as should Dietsland.
Comments?
Plans--0.21 should have completed OOB for all countries except for Soviet Union, Russia and the two Chinas. Am about 80% finished now.
Sorry for busting into this just like that, my proposal on how you could nicely simulate US support of the SU is by giving the SU offmap IC and reducing the US IC by the same amount, and regular ressource transactions, like Lend Lease.
Depending on how this plays out, this support could be decreased or increased or completely be halted.
This gives nice options for diplomatic events, if Germany does this and that, the US increase SU support, and Germany has to fight more, losing more men as a result, if Germany appeases the US a bit, they cut support, and Germany gets a little breathing space there.
Depending on how this plays out, this support could be decreased or increased or completely be halted.
This gives nice options for diplomatic events, if Germany does this and that, the US increase SU support, and Germany has to fight more, losing more men as a result, if Germany appeases the US a bit, they cut support, and Germany gets a little breathing space there.